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LA Guy

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Chaconne

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Hands on is unfortunately the only true test. Past that, pictures are everything for this kind of product. Even for my favorite brands I don’t even bother to read the copy unless the picture grabs me.
 

d4nimal

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I will say that judging fit based on pictures is a bit off base. Some of the best companies have truly awful pictures. I understand that this is the instragram age, and people are attracted to or repulsed by a product based on modeled and product shots of varying quality. I mean, Aero does excellent version of historical jackets, but their website pictures are... somewhat lacking. it's like a Sears Roebuck catalog from the 30% went into the 90s. To me, at least, the most you can say is "I don't love the modeling. Which is why I personally like well done, flat modeled shots like those that No Man Walks Alone does.

I mean, if you look at all of FWRD's models, you would be think that all women's clothing is made for high class escorts, and all men's clothing is made for sullen Japanese tourists.
This is a fair point about fits. Only part of my issue is the fits, though.

I think my issue is, you don't only sound harsh or annoyed but your wording and how you present the information is taken as a personal attack since the brand is everything I have put into it. So, when you say stuff like:


"a bunch of things like full grain leather/ykk zippers/waterproofing (weird flex, but ok) don't make a good jacket by virtue of the sum of the ingredients. Just my point of view, but at that price point if you're trying to demonstrate value, you should not be trying to reinvent/improve classic designs and adding random shit like zip on hoods or other pockets onto them, especially if you're not experienced enough to do so or correctly gauge things like conventional leather jacket fits."

That is very insulting. Especially considering we have thoughtfully introduced these features over time and really have gone through many iterations to get the balance. The water-proofing of the jackets is something we are super proud of since it took literally 2 years to develop this in-house. Out utility is something we are extremely proud of having found the balance between design and utility. This is not only an insult to me but our production facility which has had over 30 years' experience in making leather jackets.

A lot of what you are reference, to me, sounds like personal preference especially with regards to the size. Which is your opinion and that is fine. Over the years, we have had many many many happy customers who have enjoyed and liked our jackets, their sizing, and what we offer.

Clearly, the brand isn't for you, which is fine. But please do not insult me with how you word things. I can take constructive criticism when it comes to sizing. This to me is more bashing and hating and truly insulting.
First, the fact that you're taking everything as a personal attack "since the brand is everything [you] have put into it" is just on you. I don't like your waterproofing so I'm insulting your factory? :oops:

Don't open a burger shop if you think it's a personal attack when someone says your burgers aren't good. Or that you should probably eat some more burgers before you start making your own burgers and adding weird ingredients to them. Or when you call your burgers "small batch and made to the highest quality" but they taste like McDonalds.

A lot of people like McDonalds, and so do I. But I don't like being told it's something it's not. Especially not in a burger appreciation forum.

That's the last I'll say on the issue. Best of luck.
 

ThreadsofApollo

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This is a fair point about fits. Only part of my issue is the fits, though.


First, the fact that you're taking everything as a personal attack "since the brand is everything [you] have put into it" is just on you. I don't like your waterproofing so I'm insulting your factory? :oops:

Don't open a burger shop if you think it's a personal attack when someone says your burgers aren't good. Or that you should probably eat some more burgers before you start making your own burgers and adding weird ingredients to them. Or when you call your burgers "small batch and made to the highest quality" but they taste like McDonalds.

A lot of people like McDonalds, and so do I. But I don't like being told it's something it's not. Especially not in a burger appreciation forum.

That's the last I'll say on the issue. Best of luck.

Are you purposefully being dense or do you really not realize how your comments came across? What you said was insulting, so I mentioned it. When you degrade certain features or things we are doing with the brand that has taken a lot of time, effort, and sacrifice, to something as slapstick solutions, without actually ever owning one of our jackets, that is insulting. When you say things like we don't know what we are doing, when we collectively have over 30 years of experience doing this, is insulting.

You aren't an expert of any kind, not that I know off. You are just spouting shit. If you stuck with the sizing criticism in a helpful manner and we were able to have a dialogue about it, that would have been nice. But instead, you chose to insult, me and my brand. Yes, what you said was offensive. Or should I not be offended when I am to make you feel better?

I've had many experiences and interactions with folks running this brand. I know how to differentiate someone who is actually being kind and offering advice in a constructive and helpful way, and someone who actually is doing it to be rude and are full of themselves. You appear to be the latter. Doesn't mean what you are saying is right or not insulting. It is.

To use your analogy, you are more akin to a Yelp reviewer commenting on a burger, from a burger shop, that has never had a burger from that shop and not realizing what might have gone through. All based on you liking your burger a particular way and you think that is the only way and the best way to make a burger. How about actually buy a jacket, see for yourself and then comment.
 

mozi

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Are you purposefully being dense or do you really not realize how your comments came across? What you said was insulting, so I mentioned it. When you degrade certain features or things we are doing with the brand that has taken a lot of time, effort, and sacrifice, to something as slapstick solutions, without actually ever owning one of our jackets, that is insulting. When you say things like we don't know what we are doing, when we collectively have over 30 years of experience doing this, is insulting.

You aren't an expert of any kind, not that I know off. You are just spouting shit. If you stuck with the sizing criticism in a helpful manner and we were able to have a dialogue about it, that would have been nice. But instead, you chose to insult, me and my brand. Yes, what you said was offensive. Or should I not be offended when I am to make you feel better?

I've had many experiences and interactions with folks running this brand. I know how to differentiate someone who is actually being kind and offering advice in a constructive and helpful way, and someone who actually is doing it to be rude and are full of themselves. You appear to be the latter. Doesn't mean what you are saying is right or not insulting. It is.

To use your analogy, you are more akin to a Yelp reviewer commenting on a burger, from a burger shop, that has never had a burger from that shop and not realizing what might have gone through. All based on you liking your burger a particular way and you think that is the only way and the best way to make a burger. How about actually buy a jacket, see for yourself and then comment.
didn't you specifically ask @d4nimal for his comments?

if you are so sure trying the jacket will change his mind, feel free to send him one to review.
 

ThreadsofApollo

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didn't you specifically ask @d4nimal for his comments?

if you are so sure trying the jacket will change his mind, feel free to send him one to review.
I mentioned I'd answer questions. I received a response where it was clear there were no real questions that were asked. I received criticisms on sizing, which is fine. But there were additional comments made that were rude and insulting and I pointed them out. Especially coming from someone who hasn't show any experience in the field of leather/leather jackets.

Then I get mocked by people here for feeling a certain way in which I feel was justified (especially in the moment).

What do you guys want me to say here? I feel like whatever I respond with will be seen as unfavorable for me. I'm just trying to get this brand's name out, not to start shit. I don't know how to work with this community. I feel like an outsider.

I can send a jacket if I felt I would get an unbiased review from it. How could I guarantee that after these comments though? Between the both of us?

And is that the precedent I want to set as a brand? Send someone who clearly is so against the brand to appease them even though I felt I was insulted? These are the going through my head.
 

Nykwil

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The thing about leather is it will crease the stitches will settle in with the leather and parts will mold to your body, once you get caught in the rain a few times, the back will crease, the shoulders will settle in, the arms will develop the creases you want just like in the 38 size.

The impatience is something else, you're comparing something new to something broken in.

The 38 looks way too small.


New leather is like raw denim stiff and boxy till you put in the work.
 

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