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LCD TV; LED and 240hz Worth It?

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by RFX45, May 6, 2010.

  1. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Went to the store this weekend and got to check out a 55" Sony LED, 240Hz and playing Avatar and just WOW!!! It was better than watching 3D, it was like looking at a window it was so clear and I just love the soap opera effect.

    I just have a quick question about the soap opera effect, I have Directv so if I want a movie in HD through Directv will I get the same soap opera effect or will I only get that watching blu-ray movies in full 1080p?
     
  2. bdeuce22

    bdeuce22 Senior member

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    that effect should be present in HD or even SD programs. it's personal preference in liking it or not and most TVs have the capability of turning the effect on or off.
     
  3. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Thanks, it is definitely something I like and yes I have seen some people who felt it was unnatural but I think in a couple of years it will probably be the standard. To anyone who hasn't experienced it, I highly recommend checking it out at Best BUY especially when they are airing Avatar. There were a good 10-12 people staring at the TV on just how clear and beautiful it was when I was at the store. I can see how it can bother some people though, but I personally like it. Having the option to turn it on and off is a great too.

    I'm a bti curious though, if it is mainly due to the 120/240Hz, how come Plasmas do not have the same effect and clarity when most Plasmas are running at 600Hz?
     
  4. bdeuce22

    bdeuce22 Senior member

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    Try not to pay toooo much attention to refresh rates on plasmas. Plasmas display motion at 60Hz, the standard for most TV stations in the US. 60 Hz = 60 FPS. What the plasma does is take each frame (1 FPS) and display it in the field 10 times. It's not the same as 600FPS or 600Hz. It's a clever marketing technique that tricks consumers.
     
  5. bdeuce22

    bdeuce22 Senior member

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    I should add that LCDs have much high response times than Plasmas. That has always been an issue with LCDs. That's why when they first came out for computers, gamers hated them because of the "blur". Manufacturers tried to compensate that with higher refresh rates, however, with TV, the refresh rate for broadcasts is 60Hz. When 120Hz was introduced it didn't magically upgrade the TV broadcast to 120Hz.

    The response time on most LCDs out now is somewhere between 2-4 milliseconds. Plasmas have about .01 and maybe even lower. I don't know the complete science behind everything, but that's another reason why plasmas do not need a motion correct factor. it's just inherent in the technology
     
  6. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    So does that mean that Plasmas will never get the soap opera effect even if they broadcast in higher Hz?

    Also, you said that any HD should get the soap opera effect through my Direct tv but as you stated they only broadcast at 60Hz so does that mean that I wouldn't see that in in any HD movies through satellite? Or have they bumped up their broadcast to those with a capable tv?
     
  7. bowman9000

    bowman9000 Active Member

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    If you are already set in getting an LCD, there shouldn't be much of an advantage to go beyond 120Hz.

    Motion blur is not really an issue for plasmas, compared to LCDs. And soap opera effect on LCDs is usually not considered a positive as it is a 'fabricated' and processed look. It may look ok for sports but for movies, it looks odd. (Note also that lots of movies are 24Hz, tv/cable broadcasts are 60Hz)

    The problem in HDTV world is that there so many myths that it is extremely hard to compare specs that matter.

    Take a look here:
    http://gizmodo.com/5541957/display-m...ok-their-specs
     
  8. otc

    otc Senior member

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    The soap opera effect is actually a good thing that has been ruined by the inferior frame rates of film--now when we see a pan that actually looks smooth, we call it hyper-real and bad when it is really a more accurate interpretation of what is going on.

    That being said I don't really like how it looks either, if the source is originally 24fps (which has then maybe been through a pulldown), you are getting into shady territory when you start trying to interpret what should be in the middle between two frames. If the film was shot at 24fps and has jumpy pans...I want my DVD to have the same pans.

    I think xkcd said it best:
    [​IMG]
    with the alt text of "We're also stuck with blurry, juddery, slow-panning 24fps movies forever because (thanks to 60fps home video) people associate high framerates with camcorders and cheap sitcoms, and thus think good framerates look 'fake'"

    I agree with those sentiments...but I am so used to it that I also have to agree that it looks fake even though technically superior. The only argument I can think of for keeping slow framerates on film is that it gives the director more options for exposure and low-light shooting (you can shoot all the way down to wide open at 1/30 and still make your framerate).

    I have a Panasonic LCD that I just got and I like it a lot...IPS panels > TN garbage.
     
  9. bowman9000

    bowman9000 Active Member

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    if the source is originally 24fps (which has then maybe been through a pulldown), you are getting into shady territory when you start trying to interpret what should be in the middle between two frames. If the film was shot at 24fps and has jumpy pans...I want my DVD to have the same pans.

    Yep definitely. Depends on the original source. Right now we are stuck with 24fps for movies...
     
  10. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    Even BluRays runs with 24fps? When I was watching the BluRay of Avatar in the LED LCD by Sony at the store, it looked flawless.
     
  11. otc

    otc Senior member

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    Even BluRays runs with 24fps? When I was watching the BluRay of Avatar in the LED LCD by Sony at the store, it looked flawless.

    Well...24 fps is what people are used to for film so it should feel flawless....
     
  12. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    I meant it was flawless with the soap opera effect, which from what I gather, isn't suppose to happen if it only runs in 24fps in a 240Hz LCD. This is definitely much more confusing than I had hoped.
     
  13. bowman9000

    bowman9000 Active Member

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    If it is flawless to you then that's what matters.

    LCDs suffer from motion blur. To fix the problem, manufactures speed up the refresh rate. When you speed it up to 120Hz or 240Hz, in theory, it should make movies display better. You actually speed up a 24fps movie 10 times on 240Hz sets, instead of 3:2 on the conventional 60Hz sets, which create other problems (this is an oversimplification). The problem is, the circuits they use introduce the soap-opera side effect.

    This problem is inherent in LCD technology. But you have to take into account that this is just one aspect of HDTV. There are others such as color accuracy, power consumption, etc.
     
  14. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    I guess I am one of the few who doesn't see the soap opera effect as a negative. I actually really like it and do not find it as a side effect at all. I would prefer it when watching movies.
     
  15. bdeuce22

    bdeuce22 Senior member

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    what really matters is what you like. if you go on any forum on TVs, there is endless debate on what's better. there are pros and cons to every set. you really could go mad trying to figure it all out. when you do finally figure everything out, something new is around the corner.
     
  16. otc

    otc Senior member

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    what really matters is what you like. if you go on any forum on TVs, there is endless debate on what's better. there are pros and cons to every set. you really could go mad trying to figure it all out. when you do finally figure everything out, something new is around the corner.

    Exactly...and its just a TV.

    My suggestion, is pick a size and quality level and set a target price. Take that info and start trolling slickdeals (fatwallet or some other deal site should work just as well) and peaking at any deal that fits--not just frontpage stuff.

    When you see a TV that meets your requirements and is below your target price, click buy. Go read the AVS forum or whatever guide on how to get that TV set up perfectly and then STOP READING! You will then be happy enough with your set and won't worry until it is time to replace (if you keep following those forums you will say things like "oh I could have waited and bought the X-brand with Y-feature which I might prefer to Z-feature).

    Thats what I did...I new what size I wanted, and I knew I wanted a nicer panel (no westinghouse walmart specials). I looked at recent deals that had expired, saw that the kind of TVs I wanted occassionaly go below the $400 mark shipped. I lurked around (maybe a couple of weeks tops?) until I got an excellent TV shipped *overnight* for $380.
     
  17. bdeuce22

    bdeuce22 Senior member

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    VS gets painful to read sometimes since there is so much debate on whats better.

    i wholeheartedly agree that picking a $$$ and size is the best start.
     
  18. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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    I am pretty set on a 42"-46", the one I am replacing is 32" so I want something bigger but nothing 50" or bigger. Price-wise, there really isn't a limit as I stated before but I guess I'll put the limit to $1,500-$2,000.


    It seems everyone is in agreement that 120Hz is good enough to get the soap opera effect I like and 240Hz is just a waste. I am not getting if you guys think LED is worth the extra money though.

    Also, there are conflicting answer on whether I will get the soap opera effect in the movies I watch through Direct TV or will I only get that through BluRay?
     
  19. bdeuce22

    bdeuce22 Senior member

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    1. Yes, you will still have the soap opera effect in HDTV. You will have the option of turning on and off the Motion control in most TVs, so if you don't like it after a while, no worries.

    2. If you are budgeting $2000, go for LED. It's the current technology. It's tough to notice differences at Best Buy with all the bright lights, but you tell a difference in the black levels of LED.

    i'm liking the samsung 6500 series too. probably what i am going to recommend my family in getting.
     
  20. RFX45

    RFX45 Senior member

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