Lawless Denim & Co (Phoenix, Arizona)

[Dirty Denim]

Salvatore, you never cease to amaze me. Take your statement "what Lawless is and did," do you not accept any responsibility for any of this train wreck? While Roman was up in his office curled up in a fetal position vaping away and watching daytime TV you were out there committing Lawless Denim to things they could not realistically fulfill. YOU were the face of Lawless Denim in every social media outlet promising anything that the naïve customer wanted to hear.

It is not tiring to me to outline and expose the warning signs that I saw 8 months ago that no one wanted to hear because greed clouded their good judgment. What is tiring is your denial that you had anything to do with this debacle when in fact your were the one shoveling coal into the engine that was propelling the Lawless train wreck!

You speak the truth . That was my job from almost 3000 miles away. Many of what i did was done remotely in NY so I was left to be a middleman . Stop acting like u didnt know that. U are great at hindsight and taking things out of context, aren't you. When I went to phx I was inundated with nothing of substance so the 5 times i was there I started to figure stuff out. That doesn't mean that there wasn't any truth to what he promised. Every time i was there I was part of a meeting with someone important. The VP of Pima Cotton was in the shop 3 out of the 5 times i was there. Politicians, were in and out constantly. I fell for all of that because it looked as if he had serious backing. If i had a doubt, I would think he can't ruin this. I saw plenty of money coming in so I thought he was saving that money for what was needed. How in the world would "I" know he mismanaged the money. U are a dope so stop trying to put this stuff on me. Come out from behind ur mask so we can all see why u know so much. Id bet u are someone we know who doesnt want to show how insecure of a person u are

 

[Dirty Denim]

No, you may not, because you'll have some lengthy explanation as to why I am wrong.

I wish someone would call him out as i am sure he has another acct he doesnt want to ruin his rep with

 

[LA Guy]

Again, and not to make any judgement on this particular situation, but employees are often the very last to get wind of a bad situation.

In order to work with anyone well, you need to have a high level of trust. Otherwise, there is a toxic work environment, and ANY company is pretty much doomed to failure. Employees are rarely privy to the full financial situation of their employer. I've seen numerous cases in which an employee is repeatedly lied to, and senses something is wrong, but puts aside those doubts, usually because of loyalty, blind optimism, or a legitimate hope that the head(s) of the company actually have a turnaround strategy in place.

And they continue to do their job. If you are a spokesman for the company, you are representing the company, not yourself. You can't expect the digital media person for a company to air their doubts and fears in public. "Well, my employer told me this. But you know, I'm not really sure. He seemed sorta off today. And the board members seemed straight up gloomy. That worries me too. I don't have anything concrete, but there you go."

If an employee has concrete evidence of actual criminal malfeasance, or is just straight up told to lie, that is another matter altogether.

 

[metranger8694]

I guess I have semi lucked out in that I received my order, #531 placed on Nov.3, 2014, mid May. I got a pair of 14 oz. Niphon Menpu Dark Grey Selvedge jeans and they fit me very well. I am not a great denim evaluator however it is one of my favorite pairs of jeans. I ordered slim straight and received slim straight in the correct size.

However, I also ordered a pair of 13.5 oz. Kaihara Mills Indigo Selvedge 2x1 Twill jeans slim straight and they arrived slim tapered. They also got the waist wrong. Too small. Might have actually been the wrong size......Roman offered to make adjustments to them but I did not take him up on it. I got them with all black threading. I have not been wearing them to stretch them out but I sort of like them as a dressy pair of Indigos.

I placed another order, #1877 on Dec. 17, 2014, and have not received it yet. 12 oz. Cone Mills Post Dyed Military Drab Jean with brown khaki thread and copper hardware and a 13.5 oz. Kaihara Light Indigo Selvedge Men's Jacket. It's been 8 months and I've recently sent them a bunch of emails with no reply, so after reading the posts here, I called and left a message. I'll update later.

That my friends is my saga.

 

[gaseousclay]



Salvatore, you never cease to amaze me. Take your statement "what Lawless is and did," do you not accept any responsibility for any of this train wreck?  While Roman was up in his office curled up in a fetal position vaping away and watching daytime TV you were out there committing Lawless Denim to things they could not realistically fulfill.  YOU were the face of Lawless Denim in every social media outlet promising anything that the naïve customer wanted to hear.

It is not tiring to me to outline and expose the warning signs that I saw 8 months ago that no one wanted to hear because greed clouded their good judgment. What is tiring is your denial that you had anything to do with this debacle when in fact your were the one shoveling coal into the engine that was propelling the Lawless train wreck!

I think you're wasting a lot of energy directing blame at Sal. Sal has long since left LD and pinning him to the wall and trying to hold him accountable for Roman Acevedo's BS is tiring. There are plenty of LD detractors over on the selvedge forum, myself included, and coming here to tell us a bunch of crap we already know is starting to get annoying. Yes, Sal was the spokeperson for LD when he first joined them, but he left once he started to see that it was all bullsh*t. Sal has also come clean and has been upfront about his role there. I don't think Sal was out to rip anyone off. I think he was genuinely excited to work for a new denim start-up and then quickly realized it was all a masquerade. You're still trying to tie him to LD.....guilt by association, even though you should be focusing your negativity for Roman Acevedo, the guy who lied through his teeth to get everyone's money.

All I can say is, i've filed a complaint with the Arizona AG's office, and i'm hoping that they prosecute that sneaky SOB to the fullest extent of the law.

 

[H Markopolos]

I think you're wasting a lot of energy directing blame at Sal. Sal has long since left LD and pinning him to the wall and trying to hold him accountable for Roman Acevedo's BS is tiring. There are plenty of LD detractors over on the selvedge forum, myself included, and coming here to tell us a bunch of crap we already know is starting to get annoying. Yes, Sal was the spokeperson for LD when he first joined them, but he left once he started to see that it was all bullsh*t. Sal has also come clean and has been upfront about his role there. I don't think Sal was out to rip anyone off. I think he was genuinely excited to work for a new denim start-up and then quickly realized it was all a masquerade. You're still trying to tie him to LD.....guilt by association, even though you should be focusing your negativity for Roman Acevedo, the guy who lied through his teeth to get everyone's money.

All I can say is, i've filed a complaint with the Arizona AG's office, and i'm hoping that they prosecute that sneaky SOB to the fullest extent of the law.

As usual, we have a different opinion on this particular subject. It was clear to me and my friend Jockohomo in late 2014 that Lawless Denim was never going to be successful or a going concern given how the pricing structure and production capacity was taking shape. When my friend Jockohomo tried to pin Salvatore down as to the specifics of Lawless Denim's (LD&Co., ldandco, etc, etc) manufacturing capacity and staffing levels in an attempt to point out the unsustainable nature of Lawless Denim's business model, he was shouted down as someone trying to uncover LD&Co's superlative and fantastic production technique that was sure to become the star of the selvedge denim world. Jocko was quickly banned at that point since his line of questioning was clearly not wanted on the Selvedge and Style forum at that point in time. Yeah, we knew Lawless Denim and James Roman Acevedo was a **** show back in late 2014 when everyone else refused to see the clear warning signs. I can only surmise that Salvatore would not answer Jockohomo's questions because he knew that the answers would not reflect favorably on the ldandco.com (LD&CO) ability to fulfill (from both a cashflow and production capacity standpoint) the backlog that was building at a pace that was careening out of control.

To sum up my position, I sensed (knew) James Roman Acevedo was lying through his teeth back in late 2014 and any intelligent person sitting next to him in a meeting should have known this as well.

As for lodging a complaint with the Arizona Attorney Generals office I suspect you are a little late (see paragraph below). I suspect James Roman Acevedo is no longer in the state of Arizona thus the likelihood of him ever being held accountable is remote.

Of course if all the present LD&CO detractors would have followed my advice contained in post 168 of this thread and posted on March 26th of this year, the outcome may have been different. That is, assets could have been seized (they are probably no longer in the state of Arizona), bank accounts frozen, further orders stopped, receivers appointed, etc, etc. It seems the mindset at that time was to see how it all played out. Now they know what I knew 8 months ago, no hindsight on my part.

 

[gaseousclay]



As usual, we have a different opinion on this particular subject. It was clear to me and my friend Jockohomo in late 2014 that Lawless Denim was never going to be successful or a going concern given how the pricing structure and production capacity was taking shape.  When my friend Jockohomo tried to pin Salvatore down as to the specifics of Lawless Denim's (LD&Co., ldandco, etc, etc) manufacturing capacity and staffing levels in an attempt to point out the unsustainable nature of Lawless Denim's business model, he was shouted down as someone trying to uncover LD&Co's  superlative and fantastic production technique that was sure to become the star of the selvedge denim world.  Jocko was quickly banned at that point since his line of questioning was clearly not wanted on the Selvedge and Style forum at that point in time.  Yeah, we knew Lawless Denim and James Roman Acevedo was a **** show back in late 2014 when everyone else refused to see the clear warning signs.  I can only surmise that Salvatore would not answer Jockohomo's questions because he knew that the answers would not reflect favorably on the ldandco.com (LD&CO) ability to fulfill (from both a cashflow and production capacity standpoint) the backlog that was building at a pace that was careening out of control.

To sum up my position, I sensed (knew) James Roman Acevedo was lying through his teeth back in late 2014 and any intelligent person sitting next to him in a meeting should have known this as well.

As for lodging a complaint with the Arizona Attorney Generals office I suspect you are a little late (see paragraph below).  I suspect James Roman Acevedo is no longer in the state of Arizona thus the likelihood of him ever being held accountable is remote. 

Of course if all the present LD&CO detractors would have followed my advice contained in post 168 of this thread and posted on March 26th of this year, the outcome may have been different.  That is, assets could have been seized (they are probably no longer in the state of Arizona), back accounts frozen, further orders stopped, receivers appointed, etc, etc.  It seems the mindset at that time was to see how it all played out.  Now they know what I knew 8 months ago, no hindsight on my part.

I think the majority of people that fell for Roman Acevedo's sales pitch did so in good faith. That is, all of us tried giving him the benefit of doubt before coming after him with pitchforks. Unfortunately, none of us adhered to the one tried and true business principle: "If it sounds too good to be true, then it is."

It sounds to me like you're looking for validation. If that's the case, then you're right. Roman Acevedo is a thief, liar and con-man who duped hundreds of customers out of product and money. But the ongoing verbal attacks against Sal seem out of line and pointless. Focus your complaints against Roman Acevedo, not Sal. I'm not trying to defend Sal but right now blaming him is beating a dead horse since he no longer associates with LD.

 

[Dirty Denim]

Roman had every chance to make things right. He had a few people interested in his venture . We were working out a few things that I thought would take care of the backlog. I know some may think Roman set out to scam everyone but that wasnt the case. He had good intentions but his bad decisions were the issue. After many of those I began looking into a few things to see how far behind and how much money we were losing. I did not have access to exacts but knowing a denim cost $14 per yard or $42 per jean gave me an idea.

Its easy to say what Jocko or Markopolos were thinking but trust me there were so many chances to fix this. I think during my time there Roman made bad decisions but when I left he crossed over to where he decided to sell a product he knew he couldnt fulfill . The orders may have been behind but atleast those could be made even though late. The American Selvedge Co x Supima cotton jeans were where he may have knowingly stepped over the line. I was not part of that but when they were being sold I thought it to be a complete lie. Eventually another employee confirmed my thoughts so like i said thats where he crossed the line from bad business choices over to selling something he couldnt produce

 

[metranger8694]

Dirty Denim, if I can ask you something-

When I call LD's phone #, there is a recording to leave a message regarding an order and they will call back. They offer to issue a refund if I want. Is that total obfiscative bunk and in your opinion I should call my bank C.C.? Or is there a chance they may actually fulfill my order from December. As I mentioned, it is a 12 oz. Cone Mills Post Dyed Military Drab Jean and a 13.5 oz. Kaihara Light Indigo Selvedge Men's Jacket.

I first called them this morning to leave a message to call me.

Thank you.

 

[Dirty Denim]

Dirty Denim, if I can ask you something-

When I call LD's phone #, there is a recording to leave a message regarding an order and they will call back. They offer to issue a refund if I want. Is that total obfiscative bunk and in your opinion I should call my bank C.C.? Or is there a chance they may actually fulfill my order from December. As I mentioned, it is a 12 oz. Cone Mills Post Dyed Military Drab Jean and a 13.5 oz. Kaihara Light Indigo Selvedge Men's Jacket.

I first called them this morning to leave a message to call me.

Thank you.

Hi, CC co is your best route from what people are saying. Many have been getting chargebacks even though its over the normal time. The banks are reviewing what has been said on the forums and ruling in favor of the customer so def give that a go

 

[H Markopolos]

Roman had every chance to make things right. He had a few people interested in his venture . We were working out a few things that I thought would take care of the backlog. I know some may think Roman set out to scam everyone but that wasnt the case. He had good intentions but his bad decisions were the issue. After many of those I began looking into a few things to see how far behind and how much money we were losing. I did not have access to exacts but knowing a denim cost $14 per yard or $42 per jean gave me an idea.

Its easy to say what Jocko or Markopolos were thinking but trust me there were so many chances to fix this. I think during my time there Roman made bad decisions but when I left he crossed over to where he decided to sell a product he knew he couldnt fulfill . The orders may have been behind but atleast those could be made even though late. The American Selvedge Co x Supima cotton jeans were where he may have knowingly stepped over the line. I was not part of that but when they were being sold I thought it to be a complete lie. Eventually another employee confirmed my thoughts so like i said thats where he crossed the line from bad business choices over to selling something he couldnt produce

You can believe what you want, but the fact of the matter is Lawless Denim (LD&CO, ldandco, LD&Co) was severely under capitalized from the very beginning and no one in their right mind would have ever invested in a company with such a significant negative equity position which never showed any ability to sell product at profitable prices.

Time has shown us that James Roman Acevedo never had "deep pockets" in the normal sense of the word. Given that fact, he never had a chance of fulfilling anything but a fraction of the orders he took. Your own admission above regarding just the cost of the denim clearly shows that almost every single jean LD&CO sold was at a substantial loss after taking into account labor costs as well as selling, general, and administrative costs. Accordingly, unless there were continual capital infusions (which we know there weren't) there was never any way in hell that all of the orders were going to be produced, PERIOD!

Like I said, you can believe anything you want and I would love to hear your step by step plan for how Roman "had every chance to make things right" (and defy the basic laws of accounting and business), but the fact of the matter is Lawless Denim was doomed from day one.

 

[metranger8694]



Hi,  CC co is your best route from what people are saying.  Many have been getting chargebacks even though its over the normal time.  The banks are reviewing what has been said on the forums and ruling in favor of the customer  so def give that a go

Thanks for your advice. If I don't hear from them by Monday I will call my bank.

 

[00Schneider]

just received and email that my November order is awaiting shipment. But the ldco site is down. Ridiculous.

 

[metranger8694]

They're giving the appearance that they're not even trying.

 

[chiliwilli]

After countless emails and voicemails going unanswered I finally took the advice offered in this thread and filed a complaint with the office of the Arizona Attorney General through their Consumer Information & Complaints. If nothing else they got something from Lawless Denim that I haven't been able to get in several months... a response. Lawless Denim was asked to respond to the allegations of my complaint and this is what they said:

Dear Sir or Madam:

This consumer, xxxxxx xxxxxx, was notified by social media, and any email. "Any consumer that hadn't received their order could apply for a refund through authorized.net". Stating a refund it may only be issued for a charge transaction settled within the past 120 days.

Any order over 120 days, the consumer would have to do a simple credit card dispute through their bank for a refund. If xxxxxx xxxxx phone calls were not returned in a timely manner, it was due to the numerous consumers requesting a refund, it is impossible to return all calls so this was the purpose of doing a social media to all consumers.

Sincerely,

Whatsherface, Assistant Manager

I have disputed the charge and been told by my bank that I will be refunded the money in 1-2 business days, so that's good. However, her statement that "this consumer was notified by social media and any email" is a boldfaced lie. I have held on to every email and nowhere does any of them mention authorized.net. Her response should have simply read "we screwed up and we apologize- here is how to get your money back". Taking the extra step to try to lie about their gross ineptitude is baffling. Good riddance Lawless. Jerks.