Law Schools - Where and Why?

[Lord-Barrington]



I started this thread and have read every single post.
My goal isn't big law, so I'm not trying to wade into over-saturated NYC, DC, or CA markets. I'm fine starting off in the Southwest, and hence I've applied throughout the region. I don't intend on dinking around, and I'm a very good student, so I'll be at or very near to top of class. I already know many influential people throughout the markets I'm looking at. I'm very confident my family and I will be fine.
I do apologize for the expletive, but c'mon man - not everyone coming in is doomed to failure.

The bolded tells me you're in over your head. You literally have no idea how you will do at law school because it's nothing like UG. To guarantee that you'll be at the top of your class is both overconfident and stupid. And if it means you'll take out a bunch of loans to test your theory, then you're also very foolish.

Full ride or don't go. You've been warned.

 

[sns23]



The bolded tells me you're in over your head. You literally have no idea how you will do at law school because it's nothing like UG. To guarantee that you'll be at the top of your class is both overconfident and stupid. And if it means you'll take out a bunch of loans to test your theory, then you're also very foolish.
Full ride or don't go. You've been warned.

Agreed. You have no idea where you will end up.

 

[El Argentino]



The bolded tells me you're in over your head. You literally have no idea how you will do at law school because it's nothing like UG. To guarantee that you'll be at the top of your class is both overconfident and stupid. And if it means you'll take out a bunch of loans to test your theory, then you're also very foolish.
Full ride or don't go. You've been warned.

Everyone has told me that my entire life -

"Oh man, jr.high is so much more advanced than grade school - get ready to work your hardest"

"Oh man, high school is so much more difficult than jr. high! Prepare to work hard!"

"Oh man, College is so much harder than high school! Get ready for some tough work!"

"Oh man, law school is so much more difficult than undergrad! Get ready to work!"

Frankly it's never been difficult. I don't anticipate it will be any more so. Perhaps more hours required, but no more difficult or pressing.

 

[Lord-Barrington]



Everyone has told me that my entire life -
"Oh man, jr.high is so much more advanced than grade school - get ready to work your hardest"
"Oh man, high school is so much more difficult than jr. high! Prepare to work hard!"
"Oh man, College is so much harder than high school! Get ready for some tough work!"
"Oh man, law school is so much more difficult than undergrad! Get ready to work!"
Frankly it's never been difficult. I don't anticipate it will be any more so. Perhaps more hours required, but no more difficult or pressing.

My heart breaks for you. It really does. You're so stupid and you have no idea.

Anyone who has BEEN to law school will tell you how foolish you are and how wrong your thinking is. LS isn't necessarily more difficult, it's just way more random. Prof doesn't like you in first year torts and gives you a C? Good bye corporate law! It's that simple.

There is no margin of error in law school, especially at the mediocre schools you're applying to.

 

[munchausen]

Some people won't learn any way but the hard way, guys. He probably believes the job placement stats they publish in the admissions offices too.

 

[El Argentino]



My heart breaks for you. It really does. You're so stupid and you have no idea.
Anyone who has BEEN to law school will tell you how foolish you are and how wrong your thinking is. LS isn't necessarily more difficult, it's just way more random. Prof doesn't like you in first year torts and gives you a C? Good bye corporate law! It's that simple.
There is no margin of error in law school, especially at the mediocre schools you're applying to.

Sounds good. Will let you know in 3 years.

Some people won't learn any way but the hard way, guys. He probably believes the job placement stats they publish in the admissions offices too.

Not in the least. But I know that the best people eventually succeed. That's where I intend to be. That's all.

Confident maybe, but far from stupid.

 

[sns23]



My heart breaks for you. It really does. You're so stupid and you have no idea.
Anyone who has BEEN to law school will tell you how foolish you are and how wrong your thinking is. LS isn't necessarily more difficult, it's just way more random. Prof doesn't like you in first year torts and gives you a C? Good bye corporate law! It's that simple.
There is no margin of error in law school, especially at the mediocre schools you're applying to.

Everybody entering law school was a good undergraduate student. There will basically be 200 other people who have been just as successful in academics as you. Now you have to beat 190 of them. You really have no idea where you will end up. Some people came in on the honors scholarship (highest lsat and gpa). Well, they are no longer part of the program because they failed to maintain the 3.5 during the first year. ) At least 4 of the 20 people with that special scholarship lost it. Again, these were people with a 162+ lsat and a 3.75+ gpa

This guy is right. A grade can be very random. The difference between an A and a B+ could be the fact that the teacher based his test off Barbri multiple choice, and you read a different supplement. This stupid **** happens.

 

[Lord-Barrington]



Sounds good. Will let you know in 3 years.
Not in the least. But I know that the best people eventually succeed. That's where I intend to be. That's all.
Confident maybe, but far from stupid.

No, you're just being stupid. If this was coming from a guy that was admitted to Columbia or Yale I might call it confident but coming from a guy who couldn't get the LSAT needed to even be looked at by UT-Austin, it's just stupid.

NEWSFLASH: If you're going to a school like ASU or UNLV you're not one of the "best people". You're just a guy going to a mediocre law school facing the same tough, uphill climb to land one of a limited number of paying law jobs that your classmates are.

You're not special. You're average. And average people can do a lot if they work hard AND they're smart. Taking out 180K in loans to attend a middle of the road school is not smart.

 

[VaderDave]



Everyone has told me that my entire life -
"Oh man, jr.high is so much more advanced than grade school - get ready to work your hardest"
"Oh man, high school is so much more difficult than jr. high! Prepare to work hard!"
"Oh man, College is so much harder than high school! Get ready for some tough work!"
"Oh man, law school is so much more difficult than undergrad! Get ready to work!"
Frankly it's never been difficult. I don't anticipate it will be any more so. Perhaps more hours required, but no more difficult or pressing.

Everybody entering law school was a good undergraduate student. There will basically be 200 other people who have been just as successful in academics as you. Now you have to beat 190 of them. You really have no idea where you will end up. Some people came in on the honors scholarship (highest lsat and gpa). Well, they are no longer part of the program because they failed to maintain the 3.5 during the first year. ) At least 4 of the 20 people with that special scholarship lost it. Again, these were people with a 162+ lsat and a 3.75+ gpa
This guy is right. A grade can be very random. The difference between an A and a B+ could be the fact that the teacher based his test off Barbri multiple choice, and you read a different supplement. This stupid **** happens.

Plus most law schools grade on a very steep curve. If you get the answer absolutely right, that's typically a B-minus. You have to do something to really stand out to get an A. A lot of law students get all the way through law school without earning a single A. Unlike the rampant grade inflation in undergrad, the average law school practices grade (and ego) deflation.

 

[VaderDave]

BTW: If you really want to go to law school, then go. Just recognize that it's a lot harder out there for new attorneys than it used to be.

 

[sns23]



Everybody entering law school was a good undergraduate student. There will basically be 200 other people who have been just as successful in academics as you. Now you have to beat 190 of them. You really have no idea where you will end up. Some people came in on the honors scholarship (highest lsat and gpa). Well, they are no longer part of the program because they failed to maintain the 3.5 during the first year. ) At least 4 of the 20 people with that special scholarship lost it. Again, these were people with a 162+ lsat and a 3.75+ gpa
This guy is right. A grade can be very random. The difference between an A and a B+ could be the fact that the teacher based his test off Barbri multiple choice, and you read a different supplement. This stupid **** happens.

Plus most law schools grade on a very steep curve. If you get the answer absolutely right, that's typically a B-minus. You have to do something to really stand out to get an A. A lot of law students get all the way through law school without earning a single A. Unlike the rampant grade inflation in undergrad, the average law school practices grade (and ego) deflation.

True. You will probably have to finish in top 10-15% of each class to get an A. That would typically mean getting no worse than the 10th or so highest score in the class, in every class. Unlike undergrad, there are limits to how many A's a professor can give out. In undergrad, if everybody got 95%, everybody gets an A. In law school, if everybody gets 95%, 80% of them still get lower than an A .

 

[El Argentino]



No, you're just being stupid. If this was coming from a guy that was admitted to Columbia or Yale I might call it confident but coming from a guy who couldn't get the LSAT needed to even be looked at by UT-Austin, it's just stupid.
NEWSFLASH: If you're going to a school like ASU or UNLV you're not one of the "best people". You're just a guy going to a mediocre law school facing the same tough, uphill climb to land one of a limited number of paying law jobs that your classmates are.
You're not special. You're average. And average people can do a lot if they work hard AND they're smart. Taking out 180K in loans to attend a middle of the road school is not smart.

Columbia and Yale grads aren't the only people on the planet getting jobs. Your line of reasoning is almost ridiculous. Where did you go that was so elite as to land some epically exclusive job?

 

[Lord-Barrington]



Columbia and Yale grads aren't the only people on the planet getting jobs. Your line of reasoning is almost ridiculous. Where did you go that was so elite as to land some epically exclusive job?

Here's my line of reasoning:

If I'm going to take out 150-200K of student loans, I want a very good chance of making enough money to pay it back comfortably. In this economy, only a handful of schools can realistically give me that chance. As such, I will only pay to attend those schools or choose to attend a lower ranked school if they give me a significant financial incentitive to do so:.

That isn't a "ridiculous" line of reasoning. That's a line of reasoning based on facts.

The FACTS of law school employment numbers. (The real ones, not what they publish for starry eyed kids like you)
The FACTS of student loan repayment.

this isn't just BS whining on my part. It's not opinion either. It's past on cold, hard, facts.

 

[El Argentino]



Here's my line of reasoning:
If I'm going to take out 150-200K of student loans, I want a very good chance of making enough money to pay it back comfortably. In this economy, only a handful of schools can realistically give me that chance. As such, I will only pay to attend those schools or choose to attend a lower ranked school if they give me a significant financial incentitive to do so:.
That isn't a "ridiculous" line of reasoning. That's a line of reasoning based on facts.
The FACTS of law school employment numbers. (The real ones, not what they publish for starry eyed kids like you)
The FACTS of student loan repayment.
this isn't just BS whining on my part. It's not opinion either. It's past on cold, hard, facts.

That's all fine. I won't disagree with that. It's always stupid to borrow huge sums of unrepayable money.

However, my law school fees most likely won't be reaching that high. BYU (first choice) will come to 30K max over 3 years. A school as low as UNLV will more than likely offer me a decent aid package to attend. UofU has already sent me scholarship offers (before I even applied). Others I've been feeling out to see what I can get. I'm not diving into this as blinded by the stars as you continue to accuse me.

 

[VaderDave]



That's all fine. I won't disagree with that. It's always stupid to borrow huge sums of unrepayable money.
However, my law school fees most likely won't be reaching that high. BYU (first choice) will come to 30K max over 3 years. A school as low as UNLV will more than likely offer me a decent aid package to attend. UofU has already sent me scholarship offers (before I even applied). Others I've been feeling out to see what I can get. I'm not diving into this as blinded by the stars as you continue to accuse me.

BYU is a killer deal for education, as long as you're LDS (which you are, IIRC). That's why I'll probably wind up sending both of my kids there, even though I went undergrad to the U of Utah.