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Laptop for college: ibook?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by pengin, May 25, 2004.

  1. gqelements

    gqelements Senior member

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    Contrary to you "˜prediction' I will no insult your intelligence, although the "˜cute' piece about "˜Mac Cultists' is quite ..... no insults.

    The mouse indeed may be a pain, but do you really keep the mouse that comes with your pc? Personally I can't live [peacefully] without a 5 button mouse, and yes you CAN build your own Mac and then add whatever you would like as a mouse.

    As far as the style argument goes - would you buy a quality "Taget" pair of jeans or ones that are quality and style icons made by...Jill Sander [or any designer for that matter]?  Personally I like the fact that my 2 Macs can be displayed as a part of home dÃ[​IMG]cor, while the other Dell is tucked in under the desk [out of sight].

    Yes, collection of games is indeed limited, no defense. The reason behind that is that apple's architecture supports processing of large [usually graphics as you mentioned] files and not a collection of infinite small one like PC does. Also Apple's target market has been creative industry professionals - style and productivity conscientious, 13 yr olds playing doom. Give Apple some time and Microsoft/HP a couple more antitrust suits and apple will be on the home front.

    PC's are NOT more versatile, in fact they [very successfully] copied Macintosh. The original PCs [Xerox, early Microsoft, etc] came with DOS and programming tools, while Macintosh came with "˜windows-style' [albeit previously tried but failed by Xerox] platform loaded with tools to write, create and draw. Windows copied the scheme with, well, Windows and due to a couple bad executive decisions made by Mac in the early 90's, windows soared ahead of Apple in popularity.

    As fro the 90% mark you mention - Dell has virtually lost the Chinese [fastest growing] computer market and although China is not screaming Apple, they are giving the finger to Microsoft and setting all their servers to run Linux [a much more secure sever than all the previous windows editions]. This program is backed by the Government and is predicted to spread through out the "˜free' world, delivering a substantial blow to Windows. CRM [customer relationship management] software is also becoming increasingly open source based, showing the same trend much closer to home - metropolitan centers around us.

    The Airport Extreme wireless card uses the standard WiFi protocol and I have never had a problem.

    To sum up, use whatever you want, if you are a gamer get a PC, if you like design and concepts of a Mac, get an iBook. One thing I can tell you for sure you WILL get lots of attention and compliments on a shiny white carbon fiber laptop in the sea of dull, common PC's.

    PS: and just for kicks: clothes are clothes as well, not class badges..... lol [here is my point]
     
  2. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    I'll believe that when the Chinese invade the US, confiscate my computer, and force me to use Linux. They are communists, the populace is FORCED to do what the government tells them to do regardless of their personal preference. You know... under pain of imprisonment, torture, and death? They also exploit children for labor, and refuse to stop forcibly occupying Tibet, but you don't see many countries lauding them for that. They probably just dont want to pay for Windows or MacOS. Nukes are expensive ya know...

    And even if the rest of the world switches to Linux, don't expect it to become any more common than it is now in the US. The metric system makes a lot of sense, and we still don't use that either.

    And PC's are ugly? Depends on who you talk to. Many people don't care what their computer looks like (or what kind of clothes they wear either), but seeing as how this is a *style forum* we will disregard those people.

    First of all, yes many PC's are ugly, but they do not HAVE to be. Your first problem is that you bought a Dell desktop. You bought an ugly computer for a reason. Probably because it was cheaper. Not everyone needs to drive to work every day in an Aston Martin. The beautiful thing about PC's is all the choices. So why don't you build (or buy) yourself something nicer looking? If you build it, you can make your PC a part of your decor as well. For instance I am typing to you all via a brushed stainless steel cube in the kitchen area of my home. Its very nice looking, and not plasticky or cheap looking like plenty of the Mac's I see around.

    Apple also makes some UGLY computers. Anyone want to laud the aesthetic qualities of the IMac? No? I rest my case. So no points are really awarded there. Though I DO respect your opinion. And yes, some Macs are qute nice looking. But then again, so are some PC's

    I keep hearing people say Mac's are more versatile, which seems to be nothing more than propaganda. Where are the facts? Windows may have ORIGINALLY copied MacOS, but that has nothing to do with the current situation. (I still think Mac users are pissed at IBM & Windows for seeing the bigger picture in the computer market) You have to realize that niether MacOS nor Windows are the same programs that they were back then, where Mac has tried to stay in their creative niche market, Microsoft has attempted global domination through all-inclusive programming. and If we've already acknowledged that there is three times as much software, and ten times as many hardware options for PC, where are your facts? More software and more hardware sounds pretty versatile to me. All automobile manufacturers copied Ford too, but that doesn't mean that Ford is the better product.

    You can't just go out and build a Mac, nobody in retail carries all the parts. You can't jaunt down to Comp USA, or Fry's, or whatever, and buy all the parts to assemble a new Mac G5. And you can't decide which third party parts you want to use, because there aren't any. You can TRY asking at the MacStore, if you have one near you - but they are too interested in making their slick sales pitch and hurling slogans at you to listen to anything you have to say. And if you ever infer that PC's are possibly superior in some aspects to a Mac, they get offended and try to instigate fisticuffs.

    So basically,
    If there are all these infinitely better products out there, and More versatile equipment, and some supposed Linux revolution (that is supposed to happen every few years and never gets anywhere) Why are most people STILL using their PC? Is everyone completely stupid or what? Nope. Its just that the Mac does one group of things very well, and thats about all its good for, while PC's do ALMOST everything well enough to satisfy most people, if not spectacularly. Thats My two cents (again). And I am sticking to that. I'm not trying to flame or offend anyone, but I think this is the kind of thing that computer users trying to decide Mac v.s. PC need to know. And its interesting to read the responses I get.
     
  3. aybojs

    aybojs Senior member

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    I think it's pretty silly to claim that appearance should be up there with the other main considerations (say, compatibility and customization options) when buying a computer. Yes, this is the Style Forum, but even with clothing you see people here choose function over flash (such as how many people here would rather have a Canali suit over a Prada suit) and considering that computers have far more functional purposes than clothing, asthetics becomes almost a non issue. He's buying a computer to handle work, communication, and some recreational activities, not so he can have a shiny box to show off. If you want to spend $1000 to get attention, there are a lot more efficient and effective ways to do so. Besides, it's already been established that if you build your own PC, the customization options provide a lot more leeway in terms of deciding your computer's asthetics.

    You're also being dismissive when you imply that PC's are for 13 year old kids who want to play Doom. Let's be honest and say that PC's are for pretty much everyone who doesn't have a graphics-editing job (I'm just conceding this point, I've never really read anything substantial about Mac's being superior for this purpose); including power users, hardware experts, and professional users. The PC v. Mac question is a non-issue for the overwhelming majority of consumers; the only people who get Macs tend to be those with heavy, pre-existing loyalty to Apple.

    I don't know why you mention Linux here; but this isn't Slashdot and the world won't be saved by some utopian Linux revolution. It's a nice operating system that has its strong points, but its user-unfriendliness, lack of established software support, and lack of standardization limit it to a niche role, where it won't have an impact in mainstream computing. The U.S. has become path-dependent on Windows, and consumers won't ditch an operating system they've grown comfortable with over the last decade just so they can spend a few weeks trying to get X configured.

    Again, not a flame, but if you're seriously saying that whether a computer looks pretty is a major factor in purchasing decisions and that the primary audience for PC's is preteen gamers, then you should expect to be called out for it.

    To the OP: honestly, if you want good advice, find a computer hardware website and read there (anandtech.com and arstechnica.com are two good ones) if you want a good range of advice from people knowledgable in the subject. Asking computer advice here is basically the equivalent of asking a tech forum how to dress for a black tie function.
     
  4. gqelements

    gqelements Senior member

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    As usual aybojs struk gold with a simple observation.

    As for the mac discussion: it works, it's great and have not had a slightest problem w/ mine. One thing I do encourage you is not to make false comparisons such as canali Vs prada : PC Vs mac; my canali does not have "˜security' threads hanging from every stitch; an area in which the count is infinity to one : apple

    Any further than that: I'm not interested in being APPLE messiah.

    Now I'm done, hopefully someone has found humor in this little feud, because mac vs pc is always a fun, heated tread anywhere.
     
  5. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    Code Sample Asking computer advice here is basically the equivalent of asking a tech forum how to dress for a black tie function.[/quote] Actually, I belong to a few tech forums...AND I know how to dress for a black tie function. I uh... wear... uh.... my least wrinkled Quake II shirt, khaki Dockers relaxed fit slacks, birkenstock sandals with black socks, a teal fanny pack that contains my shiny new I-Pod, and my dad's old black work tie that my mother had to tie for me. Right? Anyhow, I'm always in for an intelligent discussion of PC v.s. Mac. Â I hope we helped the whole laptop buying decision, even though I took us slightly off track. You probably got way more info than you bargained for, and we all (I think) hope that we haven't scarred you for life. Let us know how you like whatever it is you end up deciding on.
     
  6. pengin

    pengin Well-Known Member

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    Boston, MA
    Wow, the level of actual discussion for this was amazing. It helped a lot in making my decision. In the end, I've decided to go with the 12" iBook. Specs: 256 mb ram (upgrade it myself later) 60 gb HD Bluetooth Airport Card Office 2004 .Mac Will consider about getting the extended warrenty before the initial one year expires. Although I'm aware about the compatibility issues with mac, I'm just drawn to it for its stability and design (as in the connectivity of the software, effectiveness of the computer, and the overall look). I like how everything has a purpose in the Mac, as if someone made all of the little pieces work together to create this big connected picture. It is just more thought out than Windows, in my opionon. This may start some more discussion, but thats what I ended up deciding. I figure that if I do experience any problems within the next few years, I can just sell my iBook. From what I've seen, Mac's keep their price value pretty well. Something I found pretty interesting was The Mac Experiment: Using a Mac at Harvard Business School. You need to scroll around the calendar days / months to read all of the entries.. but it provided a lot of feedback on the Mac. Thanks guys. Derek
     
  7. pengin

    pengin Well-Known Member

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    Boston, MA
    Oh, for those mac users out there. any thoughts on powerbook vs. ibook?

    Difference I can tell:
    1. The Screen Mirroring vs. dual output is just a software limitation that can be removed.
    2. iBook is supposedly more durable
    3. iBook has a supposedly longer battery life
    4. I don't plan on getting super-drive
    5. Airport reception on the ibook is supposed to be better.
    6. Powerbook has a nifty feature where it doesn't close flush.. so that the screen never touches the keyboard (for possible damage as well as transferring hand oils)
    7. extended warrenty on powerbook is more expensive.
    8. different included software packages.
    9. smaller / looks better

    The difference in price before you factor in the education discount is around $300.
    Powerbook 12": 1,599.00
    -60 gb hd, combo drive, 256 mb, airport and bluetooth
    iBook 12": 1,323.00
    -60 gb hd, combo drive, 256 mb, airport, bluetooth

    The powerbook DOES have a better resell value.. and I do plan on buying office 2004 anyways.. So, was there any reasons I missed for spending $300 more?

    A few more questions:

    1. How much more durable do you think the iBook is compared to the powerbook?

    2. Is Keynote worth getting? It's about $100 and I'm going to get powerpoint. Is keynote more powerful.. or what?

    Thanks.

    Derek
     
  8. gqelements

    gqelements Senior member

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    I use PowerPoint and am pretty happy, so I have no need for Keynote. As for superdrive - laptop is not exactly the best platform for ripping DVD's; an average movie takes up ~10gigs in space. As for durability - I have a bad habit of tossing my keys on my desk, which has often resulted in having them land on the ibook -so far no scratches. The ibook also has 4 little gray rubber stoppers that prevent the screen from touching the keypad. In short - don't drop it and you will be ok. [pretty much the industry standard except for the Toghbook which you can throw off a military flatbed with no remorse, but then again it looks like a brick.] The ibook's appearance won me over, but the general rule is getting the best you can afford. In your comparison you failed to mention that the ibook is 1gh and the PowerBook is 1.3; that may be a factor in 2 or so years. I tend to update my gadgets in 2-3 yr intervals so that wasn't an issue. Good call on bluetooth, there are a lot of fun phones, gadgets and peripherals that are both convenient and fun to use [and show off]. If you have any questions here are some good forums to visit: www.spymac.com and www.macaddict.com/forums There are others but frequenting too many just makes the experience a chore.
     
  9. pengin

    pengin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Jan 8, 2004
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Thanks for everyone's comments.

    I just ordered my iBook:

    Part Number: Z0A7
    Product Name: iBook 1GHz Combo (12" TFT)
    Options:
    065-4999 256MB DDR266 SDRAM built-in
    065-5004 60GB Ultra ATA drive
    065-5006 Combo drive (DVD/CD-R)
    065-5009 AirPort Extreme Card
    065-5011 Bluetooth Module
    065-5012 Keyboard/Mac OS X - U.S. English

    Along with:
    .Mac
    Timbuk2 Commute Bag
    Apple Video Adapter

    It came to about $1,420 usd. (Since I live in Canada / ordered from Applie Canada, I couldn't get Office 2004 with it). It's wierd how the US Apple Store has Office 2004... but the Canada one doesn't. I figure I'll just pick up office as soon as the Canadian apple store has it, or just buy it at a store in Vancouver.

    I'm going to upgrade the Ram myself later. I want an additional 1gb of ram (to max it out), but may settle for just a 512 chip.

    Hopefully my screen doesn't have any dead spots. I think i'm going to enjoy my iBook. Going to setup my wireless network at the end of June, so I'll probably be going to go to local coffee shops to enjoy the airport card for now. Thanks so much guys.

    Derek
     
  10. gqelements

    gqelements Senior member

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    Limewire [like Kazaa, but has more Mac users]

    or so i'm told..
     
  11. jharrison

    jharrison Senior member

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    Dallas/Ft. Worth, Texas
    What was that, gg?

    Pengin, excellent choice.

    A few differences between the iBook and PowerBook you described:
    -The PowerBook does come with a faster processor (as gg mentioned)
    -The PowerBook offers a few more ports than the iBook does
    -The PowerBook comes with a more powerful graphics card
    -The PowerBook has a slot-loading ComboDrive while the iBook's is tray-loading. This is just a nice feature for when you're in tight or unusual spaces
    -In my experience, the PowerBook has been more durable. The new alumiminum alloy casing scratches much less than the polycarbonate casing of the iBook

    Despite the handful of benefits you'll miss in the iBook, I'm sure you'll still be very pleased with your decision.

    About Keynote...
    This really depends on how much you'll be using the software, and how visually critical your presentations will be. For the occasional presentation, PowerPoint will do you just fine; especially the new version for Mac. However, Keynote will really give you a visual edge. I used it the for the first time back in March to present at Columbia Univ., and my audience was thrilled (if I do say so myself). Keynote offers several transitions, photo effects, themes, and features that make presentations very appealing to your audience. The interface is also makes creating slides a breeze compared to PowerPoint. Again, unless you'll rely heavily on your presentation software, or you need visually-rich presentations, PowerPoint will do just fine.

    Have fun with your new computer. Let us know how you like it.
     
  12. pengin

    pengin Well-Known Member

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    Actually, the new iBooks (I think they updated in March .... or not so long ago) has slot-loading. [​IMG] I can't wait for it to arrive. I ordered office 2004 from amazon, so I'll play around with powerpoint for a bit there... and then I'll decide on Keynote later. Thanks Derek
     
  13. jharrison

    jharrison Senior member

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    Thanks for the update Pengin. That's great to hear.
     
  14. gqelements

    gqelements Senior member

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    Pengin, you mentioned that you are from Canada, where are you attending college?

    jharrison: LimeWire is a file sharing application. You can find it on Cnet [downloads.com]
     
  15. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    pengin - So now that you've had the opportunity to use your new toy a bit, any thoughts?

    Is it still the shiny eye candy, you hoped for?

    let us know...
     
  16. jharrison

    jharrison Senior member

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    Oh yes. Please let us know how you're liking things in the world of Mac. [​IMG]
     

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