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Lands' End and Ben Silver Selling the same jacket?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by JohnMS, Mar 23, 2005.

  1. JohnMS

    JohnMS Senior member

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    Is Lands' End actually selling the same jacket as Ben Silver? I'll admit it. Â I'm probably one of the few SF members who wears Lands' End. Â I have their half-canvas suits, sportcoats and the like. Â And the fit of their tailored-fit sportcoats on me is great. Â I've had great fit and longivity with LE. There has been a jacket offered at Lands' End that I was curious about. Â An all-cashmere one as follows: http://www.landsend.com/cd....5196110 Interestingly, I was reading a post about the new Ben Silver catalog and came across the following: http://www.bensilver.com/fs_stor....group=1 Look at close-up pictures of each jacket and tell me if that is the same fabric? Â Interestingly Ben Silver is charging $945 and Lands' End $695. So what do you think? Â Same fabric? The LE picture is darker than the actual fabric (I ordered a swatch).
     


  2. Kai

    Kai Senior member

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    They look very similar.

    I'm another Lands End fan. I have a lot of Lands End Clothing. I think their stuff is terrific value for money.
     


  3. quill

    quill Senior member

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    I believe that Silver states in the front of their catalogs that all coats are fully canvassed. Lands' End's is half-canvassed. This may have something to do with price differences.

    But Lands' End does use top-of-the-line cashmere from Inner Mongolia; the whitest fibers at that (which take dyes better than other off-shades).

    I don't know if they're the same coat; fabric sources may be the same, but cuts, fits, and other touches may be unique to each.

    I like Silver's stuff, but I have to admit I haven't bought a coat from them yet.
     


  4. Duveen

    Duveen Senior member

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    Are Lands' End half-canvassed coats sewn rather than fused? The text would seem to indicate that the answer is yes, but I have seen retailers call a coat 'canvassed' to indicate that it has a fused canvas interlining.
     


  5. quill

    quill Senior member

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    They are indeed sewn. More like basted, actually, to let the horesehair canvas allow for independent movement and responsiveness. There is no heat-set, fusible work done to the chest pieces, in these half-canvas coats.
     


  6. thinman

    thinman Senior member

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    Just tested 2 LE jackets hanging in my office and the chest seems fused on both. What's the difference between "basted" and fused? (and how can I tell the difference without deconstructing the jacket?) One jacket is 15 years old and the other is approximately 2 years old.

    BTW, I'm a devotee of LE, especially their trim-fit buttondown shirts, chinos, and polos (read the Sears/LE thread with interest as I think LE diversified their product line recently, but not in ways that appeal to me. e.g. it seems to me that thin faces often accompany a thin build, so why, oh why does LE not offer spread collars in trim fit???). Sorry for the off-topic rant.
     


  7. quill

    quill Senior member

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    There are plenty of folks on this site much more well-versed than I in suit construction, but I'll take a sophomoric stab at answering your question.

    Fusibles are interlinings, and paddings, that are heat set on to the fabric shells. Though they can last a long time, they can react differently than the fabric to cleaning temperatures, and can thus create puckers or misshapen surfaces and fabric. Plus, they move with the fabric, not necessarily with your body's contours.

    Canvassed linings (usually made of several layers of natural components like horsehair, cotton, and some blends) are sewn, or loosely basted ("placeholder stitches) in place, and then only at certain places. In effect, the piece is anchored in some places, and "floats" within the fabric shell (the layers of fabric). This helps the canvassing lay more naturally on your chest/torso, it responds to your natural contours, has great drape, can feel softer on you, is very durable, and due to its handcrafted placement, can cost quite a bit more than fusibles.

    Members on this forum can provide you with links to other threads with discussions on how to pinch fabric and detect canvas vs. fusible linings. I think fusibles are not that old (30-40 years?). Now, canvasses stuff is great. But that doesn't mean fusibles are trash by any means.

    Hope that helps a little.
     


  8. thinman

    thinman Senior member

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    Thanks quill, I should have done a search before asking, but didn't remember seeing the term "basted". I've checked more carefully and my LE jackets are indeed half-canvassed and basted, not fused. I was fooled by widely spaced stitches (and the sound of the wool separating from canvas), not at all like a Brioni suit I tested in the store several weeks ago (the prices are of course not at all comparable either). Sorry, JohnMS, for the mini-hijack. But at least I can verify the construction of my LE jackets--half-canvassed and basted.
     


  9. JohnMS

    JohnMS Senior member

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    thinman,

    Lands' End half-canvassed items are recently made in Portugal and before that in Canada. If you see tailored items from Mexico or Honduras, they're probably fused.

    IS that about right quill?
     


  10. quill

    quill Senior member

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    Er...yes, that would most often be correct. There are some exceptions, but that's basically it. thinman, just for perspective, "basting" stitches are a pretty standard sewing term. If you see cut above coats hanging in better stores, you'll often see a dashed line of thread running from collar along the shoulder line. These are basting stitches, seldom functional (or so I understand). They're meant to indicate that handwork has been done on these coats. If a person only needs to "hold" something temporarily with stitches that can be easily removed, they would use basting stitches. So the term may not be "industry correct" as it applies to half/full canvassing. I wouldn't want to indicate that the stitching is weak/temporary. The hand stitching takes great skill and just the right amount of tension to sew the canvassing in the correct place and create the perfect drape without puckers or imbalance. That's why it can take many years to perfect such skill and become a tailor who creates with cloth in three dimensions. It would be worth your while to find an old suitcoat that isn't worth wearing any more, but was made originally with great quality, and dissect it carefully, piece by piece, with a stitch-ripper. It's a fascinating world under there, and very educational. EDIT: Oh, one other thing. Coats with such couture work are often refered to as having "beautiful needle." Kinda poetic, eh? [​IMG]
     


  11. Alias

    Alias Senior member

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    I think the word "basted" is often misused. At the first fitting of any bespoke tailor you'll try on an unfinished jacket held together with white cotton thread. This is called basting thread, and it's there to hold the pieces together. A finished jacket obviously isn't held together that way, so I think the better term would be canvassed... although half-canvassed jackets do still have some amount of canvas in them, hrlhlrhlhblhgh.
     


  12. faustian bargain

    faustian bargain Senior member

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    i believe the stitch used to hold the canvassing/padding is called 'pad stitching', but i could be mistaken.

    /andrew
     


  13. quill

    quill Senior member

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    Pad stitches are diagonal stitches staggered from one row to the next. They're used to join two or more layers of fabric, and can be done with basting thread.Typically, they're done in rows on the interliniing of a lapel and collar.

    These tiny stitches give a fullness, body, reslience and smoothness to the lapel shell fabric. They also help with the roll line, as they connect the lapel canvas to the shell fabric.
     


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