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Kobe or shaq

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by esquire., Jun 19, 2004.

  1. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

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    I can't believe what I saw on Sportscenter, but they're actually talking about the possibility of trading Shaq away. If you were the Lakers, who would you rather keep- Shaq or Kobe?

    Shaq is able to dominate games. Every year the Lakers won, he was the Finals MVP. Nobody can stop him defensively, he'll give you rebounds, and he'll just fill up the center defensively. Kobe might be the best perimiter player, but there are other players who are not as good, such as Tracy McGrady, who will still be able to do what Kobe does. But, there's nobody around who does what Shaq does.

    Kobe's the best perimiter player. He creates his own shot, and he's clutch in the end. At that point, Shaq is on the bench cause he can't free throws. Also, Kobe is considered one of the best defensive players. He's also much younger than Shaq. Right now, Shaq wants an extension to his contract which would end when he's 34.
     
  2. Steve B.

    Steve B. Senior member

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    Kobe could be in jail. They should wait till his trial is over to make a decision. McGrady might be available...
     
  3. NavyStyles

    NavyStyles Senior member

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    Keep Shaq. He's the only player who can dominate the game like that. Kobe resembles Jordan so much sometimes it's chilling, but he does his share of complaining, too. You can find another shooting guard -- maybe not as clutch. But you cannot replace Shaq's dominant play. Although it looks like L.A. won't have the luxury to make this choice, since Shaq has reportedly asked for a trade (which the Lakers said they would grant him) and since Kobe will be an unrestricted free agent. Looks like rebuilding time over in Hollywood.
     
  4. jpeirpont

    jpeirpont Senior member

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    I think for short term sucess Shaq is the obvious choice. He more dominant and I believe other superstars don't mind playing behind him because the recongnized he's the man, people could easily resent Kobe who's less affable and not as dominant, but just as good.

    But in the long term its cetaintly better to hold on to Kobe. Hes a great player, good in the clutch and a proven winner.He's much younger he has at least 10 years left maybe even 15,you can easily rebuild around him.
     
  5. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    Shaq may be the most dominant player, but as far as Lakers fans are concerned, Kobe is the star.  I say give the fans what they want and keep Kobe.
     
  6. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Shaq had difficulty this past season being consistently dominating, and his production was down significantly. Not only that, but he's missed 15 games the past three seasons. It seems to me that Shaq is slipping. If Kobe weren't in danger of going to prison and weren't so intent on being a one-man show, this would be a no-brainer. As it is, it's a tossup.
     
  7. Mitch D

    Mitch D Well-Known Member

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    Given Laker owner Dr. Jerry Buss' infatuation with Kobe,and his reported displeasure at Shaq's "Give me my f-in' money" comment in the pre-season,the argument is rendered moot. It's likely that Bryant had some influence on Buss' decision to not re-sign Phil Jackson as well. Kobe hates the triangle offense,which requires him to pass the ball,and would prefer a head coach with an offensive system that will feature him,rather than Shaq. As jcusey wrote,Shaq is no longer the dominant force he once was,as evidenced by the way the Pistons were able to contain him one-on-one in the Finals. Due to his unwillingness to make the effort necessary to get himself into proper physical condition,Shaq has had to deal with chronic foot problems the past two seasons. If he were 4-5 years younger,I'd choose Shaq over Kobe. Trouble is,O'Neal is now 32 years old. By the time he finishes his current deal (approximately $58M through the '05-'06 season),O'Neal will be 34 years old. IMO,he's undeserving of the contract extension that he's demanding.
     
  8. jpeirpont

    jpeirpont Senior member

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    Everyones talking about Shaq's poor performance in the Playoffs, but he did lead the team in scoring ,rebounding, and field goal percentage in the finals. I agree that he didnt dominate as usual and that his age is a issue.But I do think people are overating how poorly he performed.
     
  9. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

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    The reason why people are especially dissastified with Shaq's performance is that it was just against Ben Wallace. He usually gets double teamed, and so we expected him to just dominate the games.

    I don't think we'd be having this discussion if the Lakers had won the last 2 championships. Unfortunately, they lost so you knew they wouldn't be able to win it with their current roster. Shaq wanted an extension, at the max. But, if got maxed and Kobe got the max, there would have been no money left to put a team around them.

    There's a saying that its better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late. But, a chance to win it all trumps this. Even if it meant Shaq opts out of his contract, and you get nothing in return, it would have been worth it for another championship.
     
  10. NavyStyles

    NavyStyles Senior member

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    Just Ben Wallace?. Have you seen the ups on the boy? He's a two-time Defensive Player of the Year, and he's one of only 4 players in NBA history to lead the league in rebounds the same year he leads in blocks. The others? Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Walton, and Hakeem Olajuwon. If anyone can tame Shaq, it's Big Ben.
     
  11. southerncollegeboy

    southerncollegeboy Active Member

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    Trade Shaq for at least a duo of young talent. With his injuries and lack of work ethic he may be on his way out, quickly.  Better to get talent for the relative long term than lose him in two.

     Kobe may be headed to jail so how valuable is he? A thought would be to trade him now, before the trial starts. If it starts to look bad for him come August they might not be able to unload him.

    What about getting four All-Stars for two Hall of Famers? Say, as they are considering now, Shaq for Nash and Dirk. They're also saying Shaq for Jermaine O'Neal and Ronnie Artest. Would Indiana consider Kobe instead? Maybe not because then they'd have lost a big chunk of their inside game and toughness, but still a thought.

    Jermaine at pf, Dirk at sf, Artest at sg, and Nash at pg? Not too shabby.
     
  12. TimelessRider

    TimelessRider Senior member

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    I haven't really been following the case, but does anyone really believe that Kobe will see jail time?
     
  13. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior member

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    I agree with NavyStyles that Ben Wallace is one heck of a basketball player. Â People always talk about Shaq, Kobe, or Tim Duncan as the candidates for "best player in the NBA." Â While I think that unlike the Jordan years we can't simply say that one player is, hands down, the best, I think that Kevin Garnett is easily the best all-around player in the league. Â He does everything. Â I also think that Tracy Mcgrady is every bit as good as Kobe, without the luxury of someone like Shaq to take some of the defensive attention off of him. Â People have been on Vince Carter's case, but he's got some freakish skills. Â Last season's game against the Atlanta Falcons, in which he hit a twisting reverse layup to tie, blocked a shot (huge swat), and hit a jumper to win, was amazing. Â In '02-'03 he jumped over Tim Duncan for a dunk in one game, and don't forget the 2000 Olympic dunk. http://www.vincecarteronline.net
     
  14. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior member

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    I somehow doubt that Kobe will go to jail. Â What he must have to go through at home must be plenty of punishment. Â Remember that he bought his wife a $4 million ring, paid her mother's mortgage, and bought two Mercedes-Benz cars - one for her, one for him - after the initial fiasco. Why do people like Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan do these kinds of things? Â Remember in 2002 Michael Jordan's wife filed for divorce after he filed suit against his former mistress when she demanded the $5 million he had promised her upon his retirement? Â Mrs. Jordan, in her divorce petition, wanted the "marital estate," among other things, of course. Â When she filed for divorce it came out that the Jordans' marriage started in a somewhat scandalous way. Â Michael and Juanita had dated, then broke up. Â She found out that she was pregnant, filed a paternity suit against him when they reconciled and later got married in Las Vegas. Â Fortunately for Michael, Juanita withdrew her divorce petition. Jordans' house in Highland Park: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] pic of two dudes who decided to take a trip to Jordan's home: [​IMG] [​IMG] Here's a tip for those of you familiar with the Chicago area: the major road you see outside of Jordan's home is Half Day Road/IL Route 22. Notice the big 23 on the gate? Â Not exactly low-profile, is it?
     
  15. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior member

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    Kobe probably wants a chance to win a championship without Shaq, with himself as the centerpiece, just so he can feed his ego with the assurance that he's one of the league's all-time elite, up with the likes of MJ. Â He'll have a tough time with the supporting cast the Lakers currently have. Â The Clippers could be a better option for him. Â Kobe would be the main guy, but he'd have Elton Brand, Corey Maggette, Quentin Richardson and Chris Wilcox. Â If he were to go to the Spurs, Tim Duncan's already there as the main guy. The tattoos he got after the rape allegations? Â He would never have gotten them before, as he wanted to appear "squeaky-clean." Â With tattoos and a rape trial, he's probably got the "street cred" he felt he wasn't given before. In sports in general, notice the trend? Â Teams are winning - the Patriots, Pistons, Marlins - often without any superstars.
     
  16. TimelessRider

    TimelessRider Senior member

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    It's such a shame that the stars generate much more interesting discussions that the teams, though I do believe that Tom Brady is a bona fide star.
     
  17. PeterMetro

    PeterMetro Senior member

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    Let's not forget Ty Law or, now, Corey Dillon. I've never been so excited for football season so early.
     
  18. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior member

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    Why thinks that both could end up staying in L.A. next season?
     
  19. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

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    I used to admire Kobe for his work ethic, how each summer he would practice and come back a better player than before. Compare this with Shaq who basically took the summer off, and the first half of the regualr season. Shaq would actually get in shape for the playoffs through the regular games.

    But, now, I'm really starting to get pissed at Kobe who's coming off as ungrateful and disloyal to the Lakers. They've dismissed Phil, are willing to trade Shaq, and he's actually thinking about going to the Clippers because they have a stronger nucleus?. Of course, they have a stronger nucleus- the Lakers are getting rid of Shaq.

    And, now, the Lakers are desperate to trade Shaq now instead of trying to get the best deal for Kobe's sake. This trade talk for Miami is a joke.

    Banksmiranda: in the picture of MJ's mansion, does he have a guest house. I wasn't sure if those 2 housing structures in front of his house were also his. I'm surprised it doesn't have a golf course attached to it.
     
  20. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior member

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    Esquire, agreed. Kobe is pretty self-centered. A hero for going to trial hearings and playing a game the next day? That's only because he couldn't keep it in his pants when he went to Colorado for knee surgery.
    Jordan's house does have a putting green - notice the "faded" area of the lawn? One thing I noticed about Jordan: in his last game with the Wizards, he shot two free throws, took himself out of the game, and sat at the end of the bench away from his teammates as if to say, "I'm not a part of this." That, along with the revelation that he had been cheating on his wife, made me lose a lot of respect for this supposed "family guy." Jordan, just like other aging athletes like Magic Johnson, just had to stay in the spotlight, and overstayed his welcome.
     

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