Knit/Grenadine Tie Question

[3orangewhips]

I love these ties, but I hate the square ends. I know they can be had with the regular, triangle ends, but I notice they are overwhelmingly squared.

What is the origin of this practice? Is it because the knitted material lent itself to this style of end? Anyone know the history?

 

[The Silverfox]

I'm no tie expert, but I'll give it a try.

First of all grenadine and knit ties are very different.

A grenadine tie is a woven tie, like most ties, and is appropriate for formal occations. As such it's shaped like other ties, and the fabric is cut from a roll of cloth the same as other ties. The reason why most ties have the pointed ends is simply because the tie originated from square pieces of silk which were folded so that two ends disappeared and the tie was left from the silk folded around it's diagonal. The two ends were therefore the two ends of the diagonal of the original square piece of silk. This is how unlined 7-fold ties are made today, with the addition of a stitch here and there to prevent the tie from unfolding back to a square piece of silk.

A knit tie on the other hand is not cut from a roll of cloth. It is an informal neckwear, not appropriate for wear with a business-suit in a business-formal work-environment. It is simply knit as is, more or less. I don't know how much you know about knitting, but it's very difficult to knit something in a diagonal fashion, so any form of V shape is difficult to produce. With a "normal" tie, you get these 45 degree angles as a result of the woven fabric being folded, but that is just not possible with a knit tie (well unless you redefine how to make knit ties anyway).

Because of the openness of the weave of grenadine, the appearance is slightly similar with the heavily texturised feel of the tie, but dispite a slightly similar appearance grenadine and knit ties are not interchangeable in most cases.

 

[jrd617]

Grenadine:

Knit:

Big difference in weave. Also, I've never seen a grenadine with a square end.

Read this thread to learn more about the grenadine weaves:

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=214557

 

[3orangewhips]

Thanks for the info!

 

[SpallaCamiccia]

But I have some knits with triangle finish, as I hate the squares

 

[Sam Hober]

Originally Posted by The Silverfox

..... which were folded so that two ends disappeared and the tie was left from the silk folded around it's diagonal. The two ends were therefore the two ends of the diagonal of the original square piece of silk. This is how unlined 7-fold ties are made today, with the addition of a stitch here and there to prevent the tie from unfolding back to a square piece of silk.
Actually the above is a sartorial myth, contrary to what sales clerks and PR people will say - 7-folds are rarely made from one piece of silk.

 

[SpooPoker]

Whats with the influx of grenadine curiosity lately?

 

[Johnny24]

Originally Posted by SpooPoker

Whats with the influx of grenadine curiosity lately?

I think people are generally developing better over all taste in their neckwear

Originally Posted by 3orangewhips

I love these ties, but I hate the square ends. I know they can be had with the regular, triangle ends, but I notice they are overwhelmingly squared.

What is the origin of this practice? Is it because the knitted material lent itself to this style of end? Anyone know the history?

https://www.kentwang.com/ties?cat=47&tie_knit_end=128

He has plenty of point ended knits, personally I have not ventured into his ties yet; I did snag some cuff links, and seven stripe socks today and the ordering process was a breeze, and for a few extra bucks it will all be at more door tomorrow.

I am sure Mr. Hober can tell you more about the history and maybe bespoke you a point end knit, but I am not sure if he does knits at all.

 

[Kent Wang]

Thanks, Johnny. I personally prefer point-end so all my knit ties are available in both square and point-end.

This will sound crazy, but is a point-end knit tie really that much less formal than any woven tie? The texture is only slightly more apparent -- otherwise it is difficult for most people to tell from a woven tie.

I wouldn't wear it to an interview, but would to business meetings.

 

[Johnny24]

Originally Posted by Kent Wang

Thanks, Johnny. I personally prefer point-end so all my knit ties are available in both square and point-end.

This will sound crazy, but is a point-end knit tie really that much less formal than any woven tie? The texture is only slightly more apparent -- otherwise it is difficult for most people to tell from a woven tie.

I wouldn't wear it to an interview, but would to business meetings.

Anytime....I am actually now looking very hard at the purple point, and brown/blue bio color model. I would pop for a black but I have a skinny square end and a 3 inch square end in black, as well as a black grenadine so at the moment I am solid in black ties with weaves and knits.

I think a square end knit is just as formal or correct as a woven model if it is wide enough, like mine from JPress or some of the ones from Paul Stuart. If you are close to the 2.75 inch mark or past it, I say its fine and even more so with a point end. I have paired my wider black with a charcoal ticketpocket Hickey Freeman Vanguard suit that has wider than the "slim trend" lapels on the RTW market today and I have heard nothing but nice remarks on how "interesting" the tie is. It is even more of a hit than my black grenadine which is my favorite tie in a dead heat with my navy grenadine. My two inch knit, looks totally out of place though with the lapels in that HF model but ok with the slimmer lapels on some of my Hugo Boss suits and my tweed sport coats.