Kiton vs Borrelli dress shirt.

[MilanoStyle]

I have tried dress shirts from many different labels, but I like Borrelli shirts the best overall. I have not tried Kiton shirt because they cost too much, but I would like to know if one can find a major difference between Borrelli shirts and Kiton shirts (beside buttons and design).

 

[edmorel]

Originally Posted by MilanoStyle

I have tried dress shirts from many different labels, but I like Borrelli shirts the best overall. I have not tried Kiton shirt because they cost too much, but I would like to know if one can find a major difference between Borrelli shirts and Kiton shirts (beside buttons and design).

I also prefer Borrelli. Kiton uses better fabrics than the regular Borrelli's. Kiton also hand stitches (I know, I know, many believe it's a machine that does it) more parts of their shirts than Borrelli. I don't like the Kiton buttons and I find the fit of Borrelli better for my physique, Kiton seems to run large. I also prefer the BOrrelli collars. Of course, as iammatt will be sure to tell me, Borrelli and their RTW ilk are not really Neopolitan, for that you need to go the Matouzzo, Rubinnacci etc. route but Borelli's availability and relative cheap street price works for me.

I also don't have the street cred to pull of Rubinacci or Matouzzo.

 

[itsstillmatt]

I like Borrelli more as well.

 

[bryce330]

Originally Posted by MilanoStyle

I have tried dress shirts from many different labels, but I like Borrelli shirts the best overall. I have not tried Kiton shirt because they cost too much, but I would like to know if one can find a major difference between Borrelli shirts and Kiton shirts (beside buttons and design).

There are a lot of differences. Both shirts have blousy fits in the versions found in American department stores; however, in the "true" versions available in Italy, Borrelli shirts have a slimmer fit than Kiton. In addition to having more hand work, Kiton shirts also often have shirring around the sleeveheads - I have not seen this on any Borrelli shirts.

Overall, I prefer Borrelli since they have a better fit and I don't like Kiton's brown buttons, although I do agree that Kiton has better fabrics and feels more luxurious due to the extra hand work.

If you like Borrelli shirts, I would suggest trying Barba - they are a lot closer to Borrelli than Kiton is.

 

[A Y]

Originally Posted by bryce330

Both shirts have blousy fits in the versions found in American department stores; however, in the "true" versions available in Italy, Borrelli shirts have a slimmer fit than Kiton.

You can also get the slim fit Borrellis in the US through their boutiques or an MTM program.

--Andre

 

[Artisan Fan]

I have many of both (about 40 Kiton and 12 or so Borrelli) and I prefer Kiton...

1. Better fabrics on average.
2. Better construction imho. Fewer buttons falling off on average. Better collars and cuffs again imho.
3. This may be a personal fit preference but Kiton's fit me a bit better overall in terms of armhole and collar.

Caveat, the Royal line of Borrelli is very nice. Borrelli can be better for $400 price range in terms of availability.

As for silhouette, you can order the Kitons in the slim fit Italian body style. They go from:
German model - very big
American model - a bit blousy
Italian model - quite slim

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

I have many of both (about 40 Kiton and 12 or so Borrelli) and I prefer Kiton...

1. Better fabrics on average.
2. Better construction imho. Fewer buttons falling off on average. Better collars and cuffs again imho.
3. This may be a personal fit preference but Kiton's fit me a bit better overall in terms of armhole and collar.

Caveat, the Royal line of Borrelli is very nice. Borrelli can be better for $400 price range in terms of availability.

As for silhouette, you can order the Kitons in the slim fit Italian body style. They go from:
German model - very big
American model - a bit blousy
Italian model - quite slim
I think that the American and German ones are the other way around.

 

[TheFoo]

Borrelli non-Royal fabrics are so-so. They are not Sea Island cotton and the twills tend to pull; this comes from first hand experience with about 5 or 6 Borrelli twills. The buttons tend to fall off (the boutique explains that this is to be expected for a handmade shirt . . .). The sleeve attachment stitching tends to come undone after 10 or so washings.

I've never worn Kiton shirts, but they use Riva fabrics, which are amazingly soft and smooth. Someone else should be able to tell you about their construction quality.

 

[tiger02]

Originally Posted by edmorel

I also prefer Borrelli. Kiton uses better fabrics than the regular Borrelli's. Kiton also hand stitches (I know, I know, many believe it's a machine that does it) more parts of their shirts than Borrelli. I don't like the Kiton buttons and I find the fit of Borrelli better for my physique, Kiton seems to run large. I also prefer the BOrrelli collars. Of course, as iammatt will be sure to tell me, Borrelli and their RTW ilk are not really Neopolitan, for that you need to go the Matouzzo, Rubinnacci etc. route but Borelli's availability and relative cheap street price works for me. I also don't have the street cred to pull of Rubinacci or Matouzzo.
Neapolitan tailors will tell you that for OTR, Borelli is best. Or at least mine did--he said Finamore was OK as well, but Borelli is the best. Finamore won for me though, because of fit. Both are several steps above Barba; no experience with Kiton. Tom

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by tiger02

Neapolitan tailors will tell you that for OTR, Borelli is best. Or at least mine did--he said Finamore was OK as well, but Borelli is the best. Finamore won for me though, because of fit. Both are several steps above Barba; no experience with Kiton. Tom
I agree with both what they say and the fact that they say it. I have been told the same thing.

 

[Artisan Fan]

Neapolitan tailors will tell you that for OTR, Borelli is best.

Don't believe everything you hear.

I think that the American and German ones are the other way around.

My German models are bigger than the American ones I ordered at Neimans. The Italians are perfect for skinny guys which sadly I no longer am.

I've never worn Kiton shirts, but they use Riva fabrics, which are amazingly soft and smooth. Someone else should be able to tell you about their construction quality.

I did many Riva MTM from Kiton before they got very spendy. I live in very warm weather here most months in Atlanta so I like thin and comfy fabrics. The Rivas are very densely woven but seem to breathe very well but a nice benefit is that they are very easy to iron when damp. I do my own shirts given the level of investment so this saves me some time. Kiton fabrics are much thinner than Borrelli but somehow more durable. Some Borrelli collars and cuffs can be almost too thick based on my experience. Another neat feature of Kiton is that they use a nice quality white royal oxford cotton layer under that collar which is very comfortable and durable in my experience. I also like the flexible collar stays they use and the handrolled bottom seams. I find their construction to be world class.

Your mileage may vary but that is what I have seen.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

I did many Riva MTM from Kiton before they got very spendy. I live in very warm weather here most months in Atlanta so I like thin and comfy fabrics. The Rivas are very densely woven but seem to breathe very well but a nice benefit is that they are very easy to iron when damp. I do my own shirts given the level of investment so this saves me some time. Kiton fabrics are much thinner than Borrelli but somehow more durable. Some Borrelli collars and cuffs can be almost too thick based on my experience. Another neat feature of Kiton is that they use a nice quality white royal oxford cotton layer under that collar which is very comfortable and durable in my experience. I also like the flexible collar stays they use and the handrolled bottom seams. I find their construction to be world class.

Your mileage may vary but that is what I have seen.

How much are the Riva now? To me that fabric is the reason to buy Kiton shirts as the cut is not all that remarkable (not bad though). The construction is, in theory, better than Borrelli because it takes more time and is more hand done. I say in theory because I am not really sure the use of hand stitching on shirts and think that if anything it comes into play as the shirt is more form fitting, which Kiton is not. Nevertheless, the shirts have an immense amount of handwork. They probably have more than all of the bespoke shirts in Naples other than Matuozzo which is in a league of its own. The Royal Oxxford lining is nice if the regular fabric is rough, but on Riva, who cares.

They have a relatively small selection of Riva fabrics, but they are a well edited collection. I find the collars and cuffs too stiff on both Borrelli and Kiton as they are both fused which takes some life out of the things.

 

[rnoldh]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

Borrelli non-Royal fabrics are so-so. They are not Sea Island cotton and the twills tend to pull; this comes from first hand experience with about 5 or 6 Borrelli twills. The buttons tend to fall off (the boutique explains that this is to be expected for a handmade shirt . . .). The sleeve attachment stitching tends to come undone after 10 or so washings.

I've never worn Kiton shirts, but they use Riva fabrics, which are amazingly soft and smooth. Someone else should be able to tell you about their construction quality.

About the buttons falling off, why would this be so?

I wish Kabbaz or Carl (shirtmaven), would see this and comment.

What good are super quality extra thick MOP buttons, if they fall off?

 

[Pink22m]

As for silhouette, you can order the Kitons in the slim fit Italian body style. They go from:
German model - very big
American model - a bit blousy
Italian model - quite slim

Speaking of Kiton MTM, where might I find it in the bay area? Does Neiman Marcus or Wilkes Bashford do it? In your experience with Kiton MTM, was there a minimum shirt order? What are the prices for Kiton MTM shirts?

 

[A Y]

Originally Posted by rnoldh

About the buttons falling off, why would this be so?

My only guess would be that they don't spend enough time putting the buttons on securely because the sewing people are paid for how many shirts they finish as opposed to how well the shirts are finished.

--Andre