Kiton Ties

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Zubberah, Apr 1, 2005.

  1. Zubberah

    Zubberah Senior member

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    (1) Do Kiton ONLY make 7-fold (or variations thereof like 4,6 and 9 -fold) ties? I have never seen any "standard" non-fold Kiton ties?

    (2) Why are there two linings on Kiton ties? Some linings are the same material as the main body fabric (self tipped); others have a totally different fabric that doesn't match the main body. Why is this? And it doesn;t have to to do with old/new Kiton ties either as I have seen both lining types in recent Kiton ties, so are there two lines of Kiton ties?

    If you don't know what I mean, please do a search for Kiton on eBay where you will see what I mean.

    (3) What's the go on on the interlining too please? The matching lining ties have an interlining but the non-matching lining Kiton ties don't. Well, not mine anyway.

    Thanks in advance.
     


  2. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    If there are two lines, it does not appear to be reflected in the pricing. A Kiton salesman at Bergdorf told me (a long time ago) that they self-tip fouldards and prints but tend not to self-tip heavier ties and wovens because the added bulk of those silks makes the tie too heavy and unwieldy. All I can say to that is, I have more than a few self-tipped woven ties, and I have no problem lifting or even knotting them.
     


  3. Carlo

    Carlo Senior member

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    Hmmmm....

    Well I will be delicate here but the 'self tipping would make it too heavy' argument seems somewhat difficult for me to understand from a technical point of view.

    I have seen some VERY heavy woven silks self tipping a double 4-fold and well... if thickness is a problem, 2 layers of silk at the tip and 4 layers a few inches up? I'm afraid I am missing something there.

    Not slamming Kiton, sure they have a good reason for it... I can think of at least one but thickness is rather tough to find plausible.
     


  4. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    The salesman could well have been mistaken, or winging it. Yet I notice that Marinella tends to do the same thing -- self-tipping for prints, plain silk for wovens. So whatever the reason, Kiton is not alone.

    The explanation could be as simple as: woven silks cost more per meter, so they are loath to use that extra little bit; but with prints, they don't mind so much.
     


  5. Thracozaag

    Thracozaag Senior member

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    The simple explanation seems to be the most plausible one.

    koji
     


  6. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    (Manton @ April 01 2005,06:18) The salesman could well have been mistaken, or winging it. Yet I notice that Marinella tends to do the same thing -- self-tipping for prints, plain silk for wovens. So whatever the reason, Kiton is not alone. The explanation could be as simple as: woven silks cost more per meter, so they are loath to use that extra little bit; but with prints, they don't mind so much.
    The simple explanation seems to be the most plausible one. koji
    Invoking Occam's Razor are we? [​IMG] Jon.
     


  7. Thracozaag

    Thracozaag Senior member

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    (Thracozaag @ April 01 2005,09:20)
    The salesman could well have been mistaken, or winging it. Â Yet I notice that Marinella tends to do the same thing -- self-tipping for prints, plain silk for wovens. Â So whatever the reason, Kiton is not alone. The explanation could be as simple as: woven silks cost more per meter, so they are loath to use that extra little bit; but with prints, they don't mind so much.
    The simple explanation seems to be the most plausible one. koji
    Invoking Occam's Razor are we? [​IMG] Jon.
    The sad thing is the first time I heard of Occam's Razor was in a Star Trek novel (I believe it was the novelization of Wrath of Khan [​IMG] ) koji
     


  8. Carlo

    Carlo Senior member

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    Prints cost substantially less per meter.
    Cutting that tipping piece involves considerable waste, not just a few square inches, so it adds to the cost more than you might think. Self tip an entire pattern and you get a few less ties.

    ...but at $200/tie I can't imagine that would be problematic.

    Again, to be very clear - I have great respect for Kiton and have never seen them cut costs so the obvious answer seems unlikely.
     


  9. Thracozaag

    Thracozaag Senior member

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    *William Shatner walks into BG, buys a 200 dollar Kiton tie and notices it's not self-tipped....*

    "KIIITTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON......."

    koji

    (someone shoot me with a nerd pistol)
     


  10. Carlo

    Carlo Senior member

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    Koji - Shatner didn't notice that the dancing slave chick was green - think he's gonna notice self-tipping?

    uh oh, I may be a nerd too
     


  11. naturlaut

    naturlaut Senior member

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    Whether the Kiton tie is self-tipped or not depends on:
    1) the preference of the store carrying it
    2) market reception

    Kiton makes both, and beginning from Spring 2004, most ties are made without self-tipping. I was fortunate enough to have collected some that were made prior 2004 that are self-tipped. Most stores ask for non-self-tipping --- probably because they can buy in for a lower cost and sell at the same price as the self-tipped ones. I have only one tie from 2004 that is self-tipped.

    On top of that, most of the world out there (read: not any of you) do not care about self-tipping and are still willing to fish out $180 for a Kiton tie.
     


  12. romafan

    romafan Senior member

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    Excuse my ignorance, but what is 'self-tipping'? I've heard the term used w/ high end neckwear & just sort of assumed it meant the keeper was made of the same material as the tie...
     


  13. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    When the keeper is made from the same material as the "shell" of the tie, that is called a "self-loop."

    As for a "self-tip": take a tie and turn it over.  At the bottom rear of the tie (i.e., at the widest part, and just above where it comes to a point), there will be a more or less diamond-shaped area showing below where the two sides of the tie are folded  over each other.  You will see a narrow (1/2" at most) border of "shell" which appears to be sewn underneath another piece of fabric.  That fabric is the "tipping".  On cheap ties, it will be made of acetate.  On decent ties, it will be made of plain silk.  On the best ties, it will be made of the same silk (or linen or whatever) as the shell.  And both ends of the tie will be self-tipped, not just the wide end.
     


  14. A Harris

    A Harris Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    In the US it seems to mainly be a question of age - for the past year or so just about all the Kiton ties I've seen in the stores are not self-tipped. Must of my older Kiton ties are.
     


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