Kiton fake ties? (Help needed in identifying)

[pkiula]

Hi. I am interested in trying out some seven-fold ties. Kiton obviously comes up high.

Found some like these:

http://sn.im/kiton_green1
http://sn.im/kiton_green2
http://sn.im/kiton_blue1

But the silk in these appears to be a bit NOT like a 7-fold tie. It seems pretty regular.

Any ideas from experts?

 

[ctp120]

Originally Posted by pkiula

But the silk in these appears to be a bit NOT like a 7-fold tie. It seems pretty regular. Any ideas from experts?
Not sure what you mean. You could technically make a seven fold out of any fabric that can be correctly folded seven times and sewn together in the shape of a tie. You'd need pics of the tie's construction to tell if it is genuinely a seven fold (which, to the untrained eye, looks very similar to a six fold). I think Vox did an illuminating post with pics on this at one point. If you just mean that the tie silks pictured are rather ugly, I agree.

 

[pkiula]

Thanks. That's clear. I don't know about the silk, but from the pics it looks thin and flimsy. Not sure how to articulate this.

As for the designs, that is subjective. Which of these would you think are sophisticated looking?
http://shop.ebay.com/dependable_savi...&_stpos=&gbr=1

(Btw, if these are genuine Kiton, wouldn't they all be fairly good quality by default?)

 

[jreigen]

Those, like most "seven fold" ties, are actually six fold.

 

[ctp120]

from the pics it looks thin and flimsy. Not sure how to articulate this.

(Btw, if these are genuine Kiton, wouldn't they all be fairly good quality by default?)

One man's "thin and flimsy" is another's perfection. Most Kiton "7 folds" I own, including the one I bought last weekend from the current RTW season, are actually lined 6 folds. Lined or unlined makes more of a difference than 6 vs 7 folds, IMO. Generally speaking, if you are used to lined 3-folds (what most RTW ties are), a lined 6 or 7 fold will feel a bit heftier because you have added layers of silk, which will presumably also make the tie drape a little more elegantly. This can be misleading though, because sometimes it's the thickness/stiffness of the wool interlining that really makes the difference, not the number of folds. I currently think that unlined, untipped seven folds with hand-rolled edges are sublime, though I can theoretically see why some might think they look flimsy and imperfectly finished. Here are a few pics of one I recently got made from Sam Hober. Notice the hand-rolled edges and unlined tip and the round, tubular shape of the tie (achieved by careful folding, very careful pressing, and the lightness that comes with the absence of a wool interlining). The full, tubular 3D shape vs. flatter, more 2D shape of most ties is, IMO, the most notable difference in the look of a high quality tie; this may be part of what you were getting at in your skepticism of the ties you linked to:

Though nearly impossible to tell from the pics, the Kiton's you link to are most likely authentic Kiton "7 folds" (really six folds), which are perfectly nice ties, but not quite noticeably as different from a typical high quality three fold as a tie like the Hober pictured above would be. Not sure if this helps or confuses you more. Here's the Vox thread, which explains the differences very well, actually, though the lack of working pics really diminishes its usefulness at this point. http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=94314

As for the designs, that is subjective. Which of these would you think are sophisticated looking?

Quite right; it is subjective. Like all aesthetic matters though, I think there is such a thing as tasteful consensus. Anyways, to answer your question, let's just say that as RTW ties go, I generally like Drakes, Marinella, E.G. Capelli, and RLPL ties best, though this list is not exhaustive by any means. I also like the more sober iterations of the better Italian RTW brands: Borelli, Kiton, Attolini, Isaia, Zegna etc.

 

[styledud]

I bought 4 Kiton ties from that same ebay seller several months ago.

Forget the issues of folds and pattern for a moment. Unlike the 50 or so Kiton ties in my closet, the ties were flimsy and the silk stiff and thin. Without question, they are NOT of the same quality as Kiton ties found in reputable vendors such as NM, Saks, etc, but I cannot say with absolute certainty that they are "fake."

I sent the ties back and was granted a refund without much hassle.

If all of the ties he sells are like the four I received, then not many ebayers are savvy to genuine Kiton quality, as his feedback is generally good.

 

[MikeDT]

Ebay + 'Famous designer brand' + 'New with tags' + 'multiple lots of the same and similar' = most likely fake.

 

[pkiula]

Guys, thanks so much for this. Especially "ctp20", thanks so much for the patient explanation! The Vox post is awesome.

 

[ctp120]

Glad to help. Bespoke unlined seven-folds are quickly becoming a personal obsession. At the risk of sounding like a shill, I'll give a wholehearted endorsement for David Hober of Sam Hober. His prices are very reasonable, especially in relation to retail prices for RTW "seven" folds from the big names, and I have a very high opinion of his workmanship. If you're interested in exploring what makes a seven fold special, I'd suggest going that route.