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Kitchen Knives

HORNS

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^you just have to sharpen it a lot more often

Without a doubt. Now I'm no cooking behavioralist but my point is based on the assumption by me that a person is more likely to keep an easily-sharpened knife sharp compared to a person, and I'm talking about a layperson in both circumstances, who has a harder steel knife but it's harder to create an edge. It comes down to frequency of sharpening your knife, right?

An extreme example of the knife that is supposed to maintain an edge for a long period but ends up nearly impossible to sharpen once it inevitably dulls is a ceramic knife.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this line of thinking.
 

eternaldrake

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Without a doubt. Now I'm no cooking behavioralist but my point is based on the assumption by me that a person is more likely to keep an easily-sharpened knife sharp compared to a person, and I'm talking about a layperson in both circumstances, who has a harder steel knife but it's harder to create an edge. It comes down to frequency of sharpening your knife, right?
An extreme example of the knife that is supposed to maintain an edge for a long period but ends up nearly impossible to sharpen once it inevitably dulls is a ceramic knife.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this line of thinking.
that line of thought makes sense to me, thats why i went with the carbon blend knife i got over the vg10 steel version of the same knife; the formers easier to sharpen, and im pretty lazy
 

itsstillmatt

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Without a doubt. Now I'm no cooking behavioralist but my point is based on the assumption by me that a person is more likely to keep an easily-sharpened knife sharp compared to a person, and I'm talking about a layperson in both circumstances, who has a harder steel knife but it's harder to create an edge. It comes down to frequency of sharpening your knife, right?
An extreme example of the knife that is supposed to maintain an edge for a long period but ends up nearly impossible to sharpen once it inevitably dulls is a ceramic knife.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this line of thinking.
You are right on.
 

Sonny58

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When I was a kid my dad and I would go fishing a lot and he bought me a knife for cleaning fish. I loved that knife and used to keep it in pristine condition with a stone before and after every use. It wasn't a big deal either. But that was a long time ago and I fell out of the routine. More recently I have collected some nice kitchen knives and cook quite a bit. Some of my knives are Murray Carter knives and he has some very good tips for keeping your knives in shape. It's important to keep them sharp, a dull knife is so much more dangerous than a sharp knife.
 

unrooted

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tojiro, togiharu, zhen

What would you recomend if I was to buy 3 knives chef 8", 4.5" paring knife and a bread knife? If you only have three knives how do you store them? magnetic wall board? Chef's roll?

Thanks I only want to spend $150-200, and I'm not a pro at all, but I value quality and durability. I also want something that I won't cry about if I fukc it up while learning how to sharpen.
 

b1os

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You can get three Wüsthofs for that budget, I think. About 100$ for the chef knife, 50$ for the bread knife, 50$ for the pairing knife. Or so.
Edit: Ah, damn, didn't see your quote (did you edit it?). Can't say much about Japanese knifes.
 
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unrooted

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I actually have never used a Japanese style knife, but they are certainly all the rage these days. Anyone want to comment on whether I should buy a Japanese, German or French style knife? I have no formal training, but I should probably at least watch some youtube on cutting.

My wife thinks $200 is more than I can afford, she would know she cares alot more about money, cause that's all women care about.
 

indesertum

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Well Japanese knife makers make western style knives too.

you don't need to spend a ton of money for a nice knife especially if you're not going to use it often or are still practicing knife skills and is you're not familiar with sharpening.

Tojiro dp and togiharu make excellent western knives that IMO are sharper than wusthoffs(i am biased tho. I prefer knives with a smaller angle) and retain the edge longer. They do require somewhat more skill to sharpen but nothing strenuously difficult. Pretty sure you can get a 3 knife set for under $200

tojiro, togiharu, zhen

What would you recomend if I was to buy 3 knives chef 8", 4.5" paring knife and a bread knife? If you only have three knives how do you store them? magnetic wall board? Chef's roll?

Thanks I only want to spend $150-200, and I'm not a pro at all, but I value quality and durability. I also want something that I won't cry about if I fukc it up while learning how to sharpen.

I do use a chefs roll but only bc I couldn't mount a magnetic strip (although you could use those sticky tape thingies that come off easily used for stuff like paintings).

I used to like tojiros as a basic recommendation but togiharus seem nice too. Get whatever is cheaper of the two. I'd recommend spending most of your budget on the gyuto, some on a utility knife, and a cheap bread knife from a local restaurant supply store. You don't need a nice bread knife which you should pretty much only use for bread. Your gyuto should be sharp enough for everything else. spend whatever is left on a combination waterstone. You might not even want a honing steel and instead sharpen each side once or twice on the high grit side every so often and then sharpen properly when you feel like its not sharp enough. A thing to hold the stone is nice but not necessary. I still use a dirty towel. Watch lots of videos and carefully inspect the edges when you're done. You're going to fuck up a lot and you'll know it. Just keep at it. Redo the edge of necessary. Take time and patience with it. Enjoy sharpening and you'll get better at it. Not many things are as pleasant as prepping with a sharp knife.

On a stricter budget I would eliminate the utility knife. Not necessary but nice to have for situations when a large gyuto is really unwieldly.

One other knife I would recommend is an even smaller 2 in ish knife (what most ppl call a paring knife). It's nice to have for peeling and carving fruits and vegetables and scraping stuff. Even ones from nice makers can be pretty cheap as the knives are small.
 

unrooted

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INDESERTUM; thanks for the help! What is your advice on buying used knives? Ive seen good deals on wusthofs and shuns on eBay and craigslist. I've also read reviews about knives losing the ability to be sharpened, which sounds really weird.
 

unrooted

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Oh one more question, I have a set of stamped cuisinart knives my dad gave me, I run them across the steel hone every time I use, but do you think I should first learn how to properly sharpen with those???
 

indesertum

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I think shuns have a lifetime sharpening warranty? At some point it's difficult the sharpen them yourselves but you can send them some place like Korin and they should be as good as new. Used knives should be ok. Just look at the pictures and look for chips and bent edges things like that. Those will cost money to fix and will take a lot of metal off the knife

Your stamped knives are prolly going to be at a much wider angle than Japanese ones you may buy. my advice would be to just buy a knife on the cheaper spectrum that you would actually want to use and practice on that. It's difficult to really fuck up and if you do you can send it to somebody else to sharpen it. Just go slow even if you think you're getting good at it. If you go at an angle that is too deep you'll hear a disgusting scraping sound. If you go at an angle too shallow there will be a line at the bevel below where the edge is when you're done sharpening. If you gouge your stone too many times you will need a stone flattener

Also a honing steel doesn't really sharpen a knife. It just aligns the burrs. They're kinda like a really high grit stone. If you really want to use one I would recommend a ceramic rod like an idahone as the diamond grid metal ones take a lot of metal off your knife and aren't very good
 
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Thomas

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I dunno. I found Shun a great leap up from Henkel, and Kikiuchi a significant leap up from Shun.

Interesting. What in the Kikiuchi did you find better?

I haven't tried, just curious.
 

philosophe

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I am hardly a kitchen pro, but I agree with Manton that Kikuichi is a big step up from Shun. The blades get sharper and hold an edge better. For me, the overall feel is lighter and more precise.
 

Manton

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I find the shun elite pretty easy to sharpen and it holds and edge well. FWIW, both use the same steel, VG-10. jacketed in something else. So the construction is simliar.

The Kikuichi has a FAR better profile and the blade is also significantly narrower. It is just easier to maneuver and handle and cuts a lot more precisely.
 

Thomas

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That makes sense. I recall at least some of the Shuns having that belly near the tip.
 

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