Karajan box set

[Bradford]

I was reading the article in yesterday's NYT about CD box sets and wondered if anyone own the Karajan box set? If so, is it worth $100? Seems like an inexpensive way to build a classical collection.

NYT article -

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/15/ar...html?ref=music

Box Set -

http://www.amazon.com/Karajan-Sympho...f=pd_rhf_p_t_1

 

[Thomas]

Damn that's inexpensive. My concern though would be that you'll get lost in all the discs, and find only a few recordings that resonate with you, and the rest...filler.

 

[Manton]

I don't like sets like this as a rule because they are homogeonizing, and much of what is in there is less impressive (at least realively so) stuff that won't sell so well otherwise. It's like selling the Godfather only as a set that includes III.

It's more fun to hunt through various recordings by other conductors/orchestras for the really stand-out performances, but that takes more time and is more expensive.

 

[Sebastian_Flyte]

Yes, I own it and it's wonderful. You can get it from Amazon resellers for less than $90-- i see one now is selling a new copy for $66 + $3 shipping.

In sum, it's a huge chunk of the symphonic repertoire for a very good price, and the sound quality is incredible. Karajan's Beethoven cycle is one of the greatest, and in my personal opinion the Ninth represented here is the greatest ever recorded. The DG sound of the 60s and 70s represented here is sort of like Abbey Road Beatles-- the apex of recording technology, which we've somehow lost since.

If you're like me, you probably won't listen to about half these discs more than once. Most people find Bruckner hopelessly boring, all the Haydn symphonies tend to sound the same, early Schumann ain't gonna change your life, and the Mozart symphonies don't lend themselves all that well to Karajan's distinctive sound... BUT, again, there's the complete symphonies of Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Mendelssohn, and even if Bruckner is boring, at least you can form your own opinion.

 

[Thomas]

Originally Posted by Manton

It's more fun to hunt through various recordings by other conductors/orchestras for the really stand-out performances, but that takes more time and is more expensive.

But in many cases it is worth the added time and expense. For instance - Beethoven's fifth should be hard to mess up, but there are renditions of Bee's Fifth, and then there is Kleiber's. You can probably say this about many works, both major and minor, and in some cases the difference is so palpable that a work that you previously overlooked finally makes sense or comes alive in the right hands.

 

[LabelKing]

I have Karajan on vinyl so there.

 

[Harry Haller]

Why would you want to listen Karajan directing anything by Mozart?

 

[Naturlaut II]

FYI, these re-issues and "digital re-mastered" recordings on CDs are basically boot-legs, because they are not duplicated from the original reel; hence its inexpensive price tag. Besides, in this day and age, when buying recordings through Amazon, eBay, used CDs shops are so easy, why would one still obsessed over large-labels and big-names? I can understand picking up a few of Karajan's recordings, such as the Mahler 9th, but to get a full box set is just pure lazy. In SF-speak, it's like outfitting yourself RTW from head to toe at a neighbourhood Brioni store. It'd be nice (somewhat), but isn't there something wrong with that idea, for an i-gent, in this day and age?

Those who buy these boxsets are newbies who'd like to start listening to "classical" music, but then one questions whether a newbie needs to know the entire Beethoven cycle or the Bruckner cycle. My guess is, for a newbie, this 38-disc set would just sit idling at the shelf, where less than 10 discs actually get played. For a more experienced listener, the set isn't satisfying either, because he either already has a lot of these cycles or his taste is a little more developed than listening to a performer go through 300 years of repertoire in the more-or-less the same Germanic approach; and for audiophiles, these are just pure crap. In any of these cases, DG wins and the buyer loses, as the cost of "manufacturing" these CDs is close to zero.

Lastly, if the repertoire were some hard-to-get, non-mainstream works, that would at least justify getting a box set. An example is the Svetlanov set of 16 Myaskovsky symphonies. For standard repertoire, one really does not need to get a DG box set like this. Just pick out individual symphonies, from DG, EMI, RCA, to Harmonia Mundi, Mandala, Agora, Melodya, Vera Vista, etc; focus on the standard repertoire and read the sleeve notes of each. You'll gain much more than buying a boxset.

JMHO.

 

[Concordia]

Assembling a recording collection around different performers is indeed fun, and can be enlightening. Still, if the Karajan set only had the complete Bruckners, it would be worth the price of admission. Add in his best Brahms #3 and some choice Sibelius, and you have a no-brainer. Even if you never do crack his Mendelssohn or Schumann.

Edit: I see no Sibelius. Still-- a very decent way to bank some core repertoire.

 

[Sebastian_Flyte]

Originally Posted by Naturlaut II

FYI, these re-issues and "digital re-mastered" recordings on CDs are basically boot-legs, because they are not duplicated from the original reel; hence its inexpensive price tag. Besides, in this day and age, when buying recordings through Amazon, eBay, used CDs shops are so easy, why would one still obsessed over large-labels and big-names? I can understand picking up a few of Karajan's recordings, such as the Mahler 9th, but to get a full box set is just pure lazy. In SF-speak, it's like outfitting yourself RTW from head to toe at a neighbourhood Brioni store. It'd be nice (somewhat), but isn't there something wrong with that idea, for an i-gent, in this day and age?

Those who buy these boxsets are newbies who'd like to start listening to "classical" music, but then one questions whether a newbie needs to know the entire Beethoven cycle or the Bruckner cycle. My guess is, for a newbie, this 38-disc set would just sit idling at the shelf, where less than 10 discs actually get played. For a more experienced listener, the set isn't satisfying either, because he either already has a lot of these cycles or his taste is a little more developed than listening to a performer go through 300 years of repertoire in the more-or-less the same Germanic approach; and for audiophiles, these are just pure crap. In any of these cases, DG wins and the buyer loses, as the cost of "manufacturing" these CDs is close to zero.

Lastly, if the repertoire were some hard-to-get, non-mainstream works, that would at least justify getting a box set. An example is the Svetlanov set of 16 Myaskovsky symphonies. For standard repertoire, one really does not need to get a DG box set like this. Just pick out individual symphonies, from DG, EMI, RCA, to Harmonia Mundi, Mandala, Agora, Melodya, Vera Vista, etc; focus on the standard repertoire and read the sleeve notes of each. You'll gain much more than buying a boxset.

JMHO.

Look, it's 38 discs. It's a ton of music. Go for it.

>are basically boot-legs, because they are not duplicated from the original reel;

Do you have an actual source on this? And if so, so what? The sound is pretty pristine to my ears. Oh wait, let me put my sennheiser 650s on. Yep, still great.

>why would one still obsessed over large-labels and big-names?

Who's obsessed? It's a bargain-price box set. Karajan was one of the most important conductors of the 20th century. He had a distinctive sound that worked better for some composers' works than others. Some love him, some hate him. In either case, this box lets someone form their own opinion.

>Those who buy these boxsets are newbies who'd like to start listening to "classical" music, but then >one questions whether a newbie needs to know the entire Beethoven cycle or the Bruckner cycle.

So? Nothing wrong with noobs (and we were all noobs at everything, once) wanting to check out something new for them like classical music, and it's a big, easy, well-priced intro to not only Karajan but a huge chunk of the symphonic canon. For experienced classical listeners like yourself, it obviously may not be worth buying if you already have these works by conductors/orchestras you like better. And yeah, a classical noob should definitely own a Beethoven cycle.

 

[audiophilia]

For a general overview of core symphonic repertoire, you can't go wrong.

Disclaimer. I'm a great admirer of von Karajan.

The '77 Beethoven is very good, if not quite as successful as the '63 (Pastoral, notwithstanding).
The Schumann is splendidly played, but the 'bigness' may not be a Schumann fan's cup of tea.
The Mendelssohn will be fine for many folks, but does not supplant Maag, Krips, even Abbado.
The Tchaik, Haydn and Mozart are servicable, very well played. Good for filling a hole in a collection.

The Brahms is magnificent. The playing is unsurpassed.
Much of the Bruckner is great, with a superlative 9th.

I wish they would have included his amazing Sibelius.

The consistency of the Berlin Phil is also amazing! The recordings, less so.

 

[Naturlaut II]

Originally Posted by Sebastian_Flyte

Look, it's 38 discs. It's a ton of music. Go for it.

>are basically boot-legs, because they are not duplicated from the original reel;

Do you have an actual source on this? And if so, so what? The sound is pretty pristine to my ears. Oh wait, let me put my sennheiser 650s on. Yep, still great.

>why would one still obsessed over large-labels and big-names?

Who's obsessed? It's a bargain-price box set. Karajan was one of the most important conductors of the 20th century. He had a distinctive sound that worked better for some composers' works than others. Some love him, some hate him. In either case, this box lets someone form their own opinion.

>Those who buy these boxsets are newbies who'd like to start listening to "classical" music, but then >one questions whether a newbie needs to know the entire Beethoven cycle or the Bruckner cycle.

So? Nothing wrong with noobs (and we were all noobs at everything, once) wanting to check out something new for them like classical music, and it's a big, easy, well-priced intro to not only Karajan but a huge chunk of the symphonic canon. For experienced classical listeners like yourself, it obviously may not be worth buying if you already have these works by conductors/orchestras you like better. And yeah, a classical noob should definitely own a Beethoven cycle.

Thing is, I absolutely understand your point, which is the point for most people - otherwise, such a set would not be out in the market in the first place (duh). I am just trying to offer a different opinion from the mainstream, which is sort of what the SF is all about anyway. My point is that it is just pure excess to own so much of something that one does not need, when, for about the same price one could own something that one could really appreciate, or least worthy for one to appreciate at that level. No, it won't be a collection of 38 discs, perhaps not even 28, but for a newbie who is not (yet) a audiophile or hardcore listener, even a good collection of 10 discs (for which that amount of money could buy) would suffice. Musicians more knowledgeable than I am on this forum (and many other music fora) would be able to recommend that fine collection to any noobs - the same way we recommend tailors to noobs who are not (yet) hardcore sartorial addicts but one who has the urge to explore. I think, if we were to sum up one of the many philosophies here, is to know one's need rather than indulging in excess. Why buy 30 pairs of crappy shoes when you can invest in 4 good pairs for the same amount of money? I think the same thing goes for other arts as well.

I honestly don't think that a complete noob need to know Beethoven 2nd, 8th, or the entire set of Bruckner. I am not saying they are not good/important (at no point do I make that statement), just saying that a noob need not try all the shirtmakers in Hong Kong even though they are inexpensive. Many here are able to offer solid suggestions and recommendations, where, at the end of the day, you will be able to enjoy every shirt purchase, or in this case, every track you buy.

Excess is passÃ

.