Kapital - hippies, Japanese farmers and post-apocalypse survivors

[dieworkwear]

I think I understand it finally... Basically the videos are copies of homage-to-kung fu (Kill Bill etc) movies or kung fu movies. They aren't imitating what they see as "Chinese" they are merely paying homage (albeit a cheap knock-off) to Chinese Kung-fu movies. Also you can't apply western or American standards or stereotypes to Japan. Most of the issues you have are American constructs and irrelevant in Japan.

Chinese nationals on IG don't seem to be taking it well either.

TBH, I'm surprised to read your view of Japanese and Chinese people. I've never heard that before and have always seen those two ethnic relations as being a bit strained, to say the least.

Anti-Chinese sentiment in Japan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Japanese history textbook controversies - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Anti-Japanese sentiment in China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2005 anti-Japanese demonstrations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2012 anti-Japanese demonstrations in China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BandannAlmanac]

Chinese nationals on IG don't seem to be taking it well either.

TBH, I'm surprised to read your view of Japanese and Chinese people. I've never heard that before and have always seen those two ethnic relations as being a bit strained, to say the least.

I doubt that it would have any effect on sales numbers. I didn't state my view just facts that the two countries have never been close since Communist China emerged. Who doesn't have strained ties with China?



This video started a huge backlash and there is no coolie reference or kung fu reference.

And your wikipedia article:

This article's factual accuracy is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please help to ensure that disputed statements are reliably sourced. (April 2019) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)

Dude if you believe that I can't help you. Korea is doing the same thing.

Anti-Chinese sentiment in Japan is such small group of activists. Sure there is resentment over manners and miscommunication but to assume that they are openly hostile to each other is silly.

 

[dieworkwear]

I doubt that it would have any effect on sales numbers. I didn't state my view just facts that the two countries have never been close since Communist China emerged. Who doesn't have strained ties with China?



This video started a huge backlash and there is no coolie reference or kung fu reference.

I don't know if it'll have any effect on sales. I agree many countries have strained relations with China. And it may be that the people behind Kapital don't care (I have no idea, I don't know anyone there).

But I suppose that all feels tangential to the main arguments people have made in this thread: that is, the content is a bit racist and shouldn't have been made.

Kapital hasn't responded yet, but the Dolce example is a great one. What could have been a teachable moment "oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way and can now see why this is offensive," turned into this stupid backlash because the designer got defensive, said some stupid stuff, and made a bad situation worse. It feels like a constant cycle. Someone could have taken the time to listen to the complaints, but then just gets defensive and, in doing so, underscores the issue. The same thing with Christophe Loiron when he put coolie patches on his jackets, then called people snowflakes and told them to "learn how to take a joke."

 

[dieworkwear]

And your wikipedia article:

This article's factual accuracy is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please help to ensure that disputed statements are reliably sourced. (April 2019) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)

Dude if you believe that I can't help you. Korea is doing the same thing.

Anti-Chinese sentiment in Japan is such small group of activists. Sure there is resentment over manners and miscommunication but to assume that they are openly hostile to each other is silly.

Sorry, you edited your post after I responded. What Wiki page is this from?

One of the major grievances right now is from the **** of Nanking, which I assume we all agree happened. Following a refusal to apologize, then was there was the textbook issue. Are we disputing that happened?

 

[whereeaglesdare]

Whatever you think of the Kapital collection, the fact is that Chinese and Korean relations to Japan are at an all-time low, so much so that Uniqlo in Korea is going broke due to a boycott on Japanese goods. Undercover's Jun Takahashi had to apologise for his IG post supporting the protesters in HK, after a giant backlash that saw the recent Nike x Undercover sneaker pulled from stores all over China. Interesting times indeed.

 

[BandannAlmanac]

Sorry, you edited your post after I responded. What Wiki page is this from?

One of the major grievances right now is from the **** of Nanking, which I assume we all agree happened. Following a refusal to apologize, then was there was the textbook issue. Are we disputing that happened?

It was from the first link in your post.

 

[dieworkwear]

It was from the first link in your post.

I think the Japanese nationalist groups are a small and insignificant part of the story. The main issue goes back to Nanking and what happened afterward.

 

[g transistor]

I doubt it'll affect sales, either, because it's an Asian brand doing Asian ****. D&G got dragged because D&G isn't Asian, and well, they're a lot bigger than Kapital.

I don't think it's misguided to think this stuff is stupid and to bring it up — Kapital may be a Japanese brand but they have an international presence. They sell to a non-zero number of Americans, and if a brand I enjoy starts doing dumb stuff, it affects how I think of it, it affects how I perceive the brand. It doesn't really matter if Chinese nationals don't care about it — there is a group of people who really don't like it, and that's bad for Kapital, and it's bad for us as people who enjoy the brand.

And, in no way is it close to homage of kung fu movies like Kill Bill or Kung Fu Hustle or anything of that. Like I said before, it's closer to the slant-your-eyes-with-your-fingers ching-chong stuff. If a white group (and it doesn't even have to be Americans, it can be any white group of folks in the world) did what Kapital did with their videos, there would be 0 people defending them. I will defend Kill Bill to the end, because there was a lot of beautiful stuff and lots and lots of work and research to it: Kill Bill was a love story to Kung fu and Samurai cinema and it shows, Kapital's work does not.

The thing that gets me is that it would be so easy for them to get actual kung fu practitioners to model for them. I mean, K does a great job at representation in models, and it's not like kung fu is hard to find. They've gone to crazier lengths to do more obscure things for photoshoots and lookbooks and videos. Naming your collection Rat Kung Fu and then doing fake kung fu is extremely low effort.

At the end of the day, I still really like Kapital. I love what they do, and I care enough to be vocal about it, because if they continue to do stuff like this, I definitely will no longer care nor support them.

And just to reiterate, this is not a conversation about cultural appropriation.

 

[BandannAlmanac]

I think the Japanese nationalist groups are a small and insignificant part of the story. The main issue goes back to Nanking and what happened afterward.

Dude what? How are you going to extrapolate that entire idea?

Why so defensive over China aren't they the current western "bad guy"? I can't even start to defend a country that detains its own muslim citizens or Stallin esq approach to social control.

 

[BandannAlmanac]

The thing that gets me is that it would be so easy for them to get actual kung fu practitioners to model for them. I mean, K does a great job at representation in models, and it's not like kung fu is hard to find. They've gone to crazier lengths to do more obscure things for photoshoots and lookbooks and videos. Naming your collection Rat Kung Fu and then doing fake kung fu is extremely low effort.

At the end of the day, I still really like Kapital. I love what they do, and I care enough to be vocal about it, because if they continue to do stuff like this, I definitely will no longer care nor support them.

And just to reiterate, this is not a conversation about cultural appropriation.

I see a lot of misguided dedication here. From personal experience brands will always break your heart in the end.

 

[dieworkwear]

Dude what? How are you going to extrapolate that entire idea?

Extrapolate what? I was just surprised by your view of Chinese-Japanese ethnic relations, as I don't think they're as friendly as you've made them out to be. I don't get your objections.

 

[BandannAlmanac]

Extrapolate what? I was just surprised by your view of Chinese-Japanese ethnic relations, as I don't think they're as friendly as you've made them out to be. I don't get your objections.

The governments may be at odds but there are record numbers of Chinese tourists this year. So people obviously don't care...

 

[dieworkwear]

Why so defensive over China aren't they the current western "bad guy"? I can't even start to defend a country that detains its own muslim citizens or Stallin esq approach to social control.

Sorry, you edited this again after I replied. I didn't realize China was committing human rights abuses. In that case, more racist depictions of them, please!

 

[BandannAlmanac]

Sorry, you edited this again after I replied. I didn't realize China was committing human rights abuses. In that case, more racist depictions of them, please!

They are the same race how can it be racist? Chinese is a nationality not a race.

 

[dieworkwear]

They are the same race how can it be racist? Chinese is a nationality not a race.

Good lord, your takes somehow get worse and worse. It's like next level.

Japanese and Chinese people are not the same race. There is an "ethnicity" behind the Chinese national identity, which is called Han.

Anyway, for all the weird contorting and spinning, none of this has to do directly with the claims that the lookbook and IG video can be interpreted as having racist undertones, and probably weren't the best thing to put out there. If you don't find them to be racist, maybe take some time to see how others may see them otherwise? It's possible that people who actually grew up Asian have a different experience than you.