JR Rendenbach Closing

[Commisar]

Comparing them side by side in real life, the C&Js aren't magnificently better shoes.

The difference between those shoes is quite literally in the much better photography for the C&J + much higher shine on the shoes.

Correct

The difference between a $300 shoe (the most anyone should actually pay for the "mainline" of Allen Edmonds) and a $600-$800 show is remarkable small.

I will say that TLB Mallorca sells their "mainline" for $350 and their Artista line for $400 and those are EXCELLENT for the price. That said if their last/widths don't work for your feet you're SoL.

Cobbler union is a bit more at $395 but they cater to American feet.

 

[Nobilis Animus]

Well, this is kind of off in the weeds, but makers of anything have to find their own niche. And appeal to that market.

Esp. with the average (and even knowledgeable) consumer willing to buy into the hype put out by the factories and the notion that price reflects quality, the low and mid level market is lost to any maker wanting to survive. Lobbs charges a vry high price for their goods. Probably more than an objective cost/price analysis would justify. They have established their preeminence in the 'elite' market..And they are selling reputation and 'blue sky.' To charge less would be to lose leverage in that market.

Again, the more we accept shoddy, the more shoddy prevails. The more we diss high end the more high end is forced to refine their customer base. If the customer says "I can't afford/ don't need handwelted," the more the maker of handwelted says "they're not for you anyway."

And rightfully so, IMO.

Oh, I definitely agree when it comes to something like the initial price of the shoes. Maybe they should be cheaper, and maybe not. That's simply the price of the thing.

It's the same conversation that is had about 10k bespoke suits or the-sky-is-the-limit couture. If you want to enjoy the talent and art needed to make these things, you must pay the price of the artisan.

But when we come to something like a repair, that's not like crafting another pair of bespoke shoes or a new suit. As you mentioned earlier, a welt and outer sole can just as easily be attached by a competent, local cobbler. I expect to pay whatever he feels his talents are worth. I have yet to meet a cobbler who'd charge so much.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Lol ok, I'd suggest going for John Lobb so you can get all the quality you need for a cool $1,500 a pair.

A "well made shoe" can be sub $200 if you don't minded Blake stitched and sub $300 for something Goodyear welted.

Give me full grain hide on the upper, leather line and insoles, a leather board or leather heel stack, good stitching and a leather or Dainite or Vibram sole.

I like a cork inlay but leather on leather is fine too. I don't really care about leather vs celastic stiffening unless the price is $400+.

Note, I don't think Allen Edmonds should be purchased for anything except their twice yearly sale prices unless it's a trunk show Cordovan model.

 

[Commisar]

More manufacturing defects (not talking seconds, never bought any). Cheaper packaging. Stitching not matching up. Defects in leather out of box.

My buddy had a pair separate from the soles on the fourth(ish) wear.

We both swore off in 2019. He's pure Alden and I'm European now.

Ok, who gives a sh*t about packaging????? They all come in paper/cardboard boxes. As for the leather with defects, the Shoesnob guy got it right when he said you WILL NOT be getting "Tier 1" hides for under $800 in 2019 and beyond. You just won't be. You might get something with imperfections so minor you can't seem them, but honest to God Tier 1 leather in sub $800 shoes ended 5-10 years ago. Those hides cost more now, good tanneries are either going bankrupt or are catering only to the ultra high end.

 

[Commisar]

I can go hold a Park Avenue and an Alex in my hand right now.

The Alex is a much better shoe. Its not even close.

And that Park Avenue is 2014, back when they still came from America and weren't on sale all year.

Ahaha they still come from the USA. If you ACTUALLY think that C&J is "100% British" I have a few bridges to sell you.

 

[Commisar]

When I wear my GGs and then switch to a pair of AE, I'm always blown away by the difference. I've sold off most of my AE, just kept a few boots.

I'd certainly hope a $1200+ pair of shoes is nicer than a $300 one.

 

[ValidusLA]

Ok, who gives a sh*t about packaging????? They all come in paper/cardboard boxes. As for the leather with defects, the Shoesnob guy got it right when he said you WILL NOT be getting "Tier 1" hides for under $800 in 2019 and beyond. You just won't be. You might get something with imperfections so Minot you can't seem them, but honest to God Tier 1 leather in sub $800 shoes ended 5-10 years ago. Those hides cost more now, good tanneries are either going bankrupt or are catering only to the ultra high end.

I care when they started sending torn boxes with no felt bags.

Ignoring definitions of "tier 1" hide or whatever, is your proposition that Vass and Allen Edmonds uppers are the same?

Both are sub $800.

 

[bengal-stripe]

There are rumors that one of the major West End firms uses Springline for their bespoke lasts. So one upside to using them is that you can get your shoes resoled by a local cobbler and your bespoke last will probably be at their shop

Springline has a bespoke last making department and they produce bespoke lasts in the same way as other last makers: an oversized last gets rasped down until a pair is created which will include all the peculiarities of a particular pair of feet. They work from a set of measurements and outline drawings just like anyone else. The particulars are either supplied by the commissioning shoemaking firm or individuals can visit the Springline premises to have their measurements taken.

Bespoke Lasts

Bespoke lasts are the ultimate luxury – enabling a shoemaker to create your perfect pair of shoes. If you wish to supply your own measurements then please contact us to find out what information we require. Northampton's finest.

springline.net

The likelihood your bespoke last makes it's way into the local cobbler's shop is zilch

 

[ValidusLA]

Ahaha they still come from the USA. If you ACTUALLY think that C&J is "100% British" I have a few bridges to sell you.

Well I'm sure they aren't sewing uppers in the Dominican.

 

[dieworkwear]

The likelihood your bespoke last makes it's way into the local cobbler's shop is zilch

Yes, I was just making a poorly formed joke about how a certain maker is rumored to make their lasts.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Actually - Thinking back to the discussion about resoling and how it’s preferable to have the original last. Here’s a question for @DWFII and @ntempleman actually. I always opt to add lasted trees. If I’ve got my hinged trees from my maker, how much of a difference are we likely talking about compared to the last the shoes were built on for the purposes of retaining the shape during a resole?

 

[Commisar]

I care when they started sending torn boxes with no felt bags.

Ignoring definitions of "tier 1" hide or whatever, is your proposition that Vass and Allen Edmonds uppers are the same?

Both are sub $800.

Yes, thought Vaas clickers are probably a lot more careful. AE makes in a week what Vaas makes on a year.

 

[Commisar]

Well I'm sure they aren't sewing uppers in the Dominican.

They sew them in Poland/Romania/India, like all good British brands these days. ?

 

[ValidusLA]

Yes, thought Vaas clickers are probably a lot more careful. AE makes in a week what Vaas makes on a year.

As @Jmr928 Was saying earlier, I think men would be better off not buying Allen Edmonds 4x times a year, and buying a better shoe.

Vass is easy to order now, and much better.

 

[ntempleman]

Trees are not really like the last, they’re much smaller. In engineering terms, the lasts will be in interference with the shoe - takes some lubricant and a big mallet to drive it back in. A tree is significantly smaller to provide a clearance fit