John Lobb Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by dddrees, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I disagree. It's one thing to point to one pair of shoes or one rubber sole and say cements are adequate even in the absence of stitching....

    If cements were adequate for rubber, they'd be more than adequate for leather which has pores and fibers for the cement to bind to...unlike rubber. And yes, you do see leather soled shoes manufactured with nothing but cement. Presses and heat are used and still cement construction is considered one of the worst and most unreliable methods of making a shoe.

    If cement construction was all that adequate why haven't the big manufacturers abandoned stitching altogether? Every manufacture is driven by the need to maximize profit. That's a simple economic fact. Stitching an outsole, especially when it is channeled, takes time...and specialized machines and materials. No sensible manufacturer would do it unless it were thought important.

    To come full circle...it's easy to look at one pair of shoes and say the cement will hold. Until it doesn't. It's quite another thing to deal with shoes that come into a shop for repair that are not worn down even 50% and yet the outsole is flapping in the wind. It's one thing to have experience with many different brands...and materials, and techniques...and quite another to speculate based on limited experience.

    Cements are good but ultraviolet rays, oils, salts, gasoline, acids, etc., affect and degrade the bond.

    But no matter how much cements themselves have improved or how good they are... the problem is with the rubber. As I mentioned above, cements don't bond to rubber very well. And as a consequence, once that bond is undermined, it spreads.
     
  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Not at all. It's more like wearing your trousers with no belt or braces...expecting the pads that keep your shirt from rucking, to hold your pants up.

    The analogy falls flat simply because we've had some sort of paste or cement for centuries. Rubber cements, since latex was discovered. But diligent shoemakers have never depended upon any of it...not for outsoles, not for uppers.

    It's not "best practices."

    --
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2015
  3. Equus Leather

    Equus Leather Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    Don't know if its just me but that stitching is really wide, cosmetic or not I think Id be disappointed by the crudeness given they are Lobbs. Maybe its just the look their going for.. Charlie
     
  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I'd guess half inch apart. Obviously they believe that the stitching is superfluous as well.
     
  5. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The question was, will a stitched rubber sole fall-off when the stitching is worn down. Don't forget, the profile is about 2 or 3 mm higher than the base of the sole. It will take a lot of walking before those 2 or 3 mm are worn down. But even when the stitches are worn down, there is in addition the cement, so you will need a second element to fail before the sole comes off.


    These shoes are not John Lobb. I believe 'jujuoo11' picked up a picture (any old picture) from the net which shows worn stitches.

    These here are JL "November" rubber soles. They are stitched to the usual standard (for rubber soles) of about 6 stitches/inch.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2015
  6. Equus Leather

    Equus Leather Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    Good! Pleased they weren't Lobb, they looked horrid, would have been sad had they been.

    Charlie
     
  7. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, and I said:


    The 2-3 mm is inconsequential simply because the thread cannot lock in the rubber the way it locks in the leather. Just as the cement cannot bond to the rubber as well as it bonds to the leather.

    In fact, the stitches do not have to fail for a rubber sole to open up. The lock can be intact and the stitch will pull through.

    Again, the problem is with the fundamental nature of the rubber as much as the possible vulnerability of the cement.

    --
    edited for punctuation and clarity
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2015
  8. mw313

    mw313 Senior member

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    It may just be me but I think that we were talking about slightly different things. It is one thing when talkin about the stitching vs glue/cement of a rubber sole to an existing leather sole but another to talk about different construction types like cheap cement construction used on "fashion" shoes.

    Once again it may just be my interpretation but it seems like we were getting side tracked from the initial point that was asked.
     
  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    [COLOR=FF0000]This[/COLOR] was the initial question.

    And this was my answer two posts later..


    the OP then asked


    And I responded...


    All this only by way of saying that I don't think that we are side-tracked or OT at all...although my tolerance for meandering conversations may be higher than most.
     
  10. mw313

    mw313 Senior member

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    Thanks for the quick summary. That helped to catch me up.
     
  11. ike_hiking_boots

    ike_hiking_boots Senior member

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    Want.
     
  12. jujujoo11

    jujujoo11 Senior member

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    I know this has been discussed here. But Why do the new John Lobb Autumn/Winter 2015 look so weird? I really don't find myself wearing that and will find it unpleasing if that's where JL is headed.
     
  13. member2000r

    member2000r Senior member

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    Maybe we have to expect the JL x PS new collection...
     
  14. jujujoo11

    jujujoo11 Senior member

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    Paul Smith?? I don't mind the Paul Smith John Lobb.... Same stuff with some limited flare. But the new collection looks like something from space. Like who will pay $2000 for a pair of Space shoes.
     
  15. lasbar

    lasbar Senior member

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    Idiots and there are a few out there.
     

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