Jm weston question

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by jcusey, Mar 14, 2004.

  1. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    46
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    This is mostly for T4phage since I know he has the shoe in question.

    Is the sole-welt treatment on the Perry 634 oxford similar to that on the 637 demi-chasse? That is, does the welt strip not extend to the edge of the sole? In addition, how do you find the 7 eyelets? Is the shoe cut higher on the foot than usual, or do the eyelets just extend further down the vamp?

    Thanks for any help you can offer.

    Edit: And can you tell me the reference number for the new Perry wholecuts?
     


  2. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Likes Received:
    652
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    The welt is exactly the same as the demi chasse that you have, i.e, it does not extend to the edges. As I mentioned before, I posed the question to the manageress in Antwerp and she said that was a design element that Perry wanted.

    The shoe is cut slightly higher than the other Perrys, but only just, it is not uncomfortable. As for the laces extending down the vamp, I would say about the same as your chasse, but lower than the plain derby. To my eye, the overall impression is that the shoe looks sleeker, very elegant.

    I specified that they put in the steel toe tips which they did, and very nice too.

    As for the wholecuts, I don't have the number since the new catalogue is not out yet. I will let you know once they send it too me. In my opinion, the wholecuts is not very nice. I don't know why since the shape is very much like the other Perrys' - sleek and elegant. If you have seen one of the newer Santoni wholecuts (the longer ones with the orange label inside), the overall effect is the same.

    A.Harris, thanks for the croco recommendation, the Weston moccassins arrived and they are stunning. Broken them in around the house and am waiting for spring to arrive (and some decent weather) to give them an airing. In my eyes, they look so much nicer (and eminently more practical) than E.Greens due to the styling and shape.
     


  3. A Harris

    A Harris Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    4,582
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    No problem. Now I just have to get busy and find myself a pair at discount :)
     


  4. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    46
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Thanks for your reply. The shoe looks great on the website, and I'm thinking of getting it in burgundy. I find that I like my 637 demi-chasses more every time I wear them.

    It's a shame that the wholecuts aren't particularly appealing. I would have thought that the Perry last could have made a superlative wholecut, but apparently not.
     


  5. My View

    My View Senior member

    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2003
    Location:
    Singapore
    Does anyone know where I buy JM Weston's seconds or rejects?
     


  6. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Likes Received:
    652
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    Originally posted by jcusey:
    If you do decide to order them, make sure that the Weston people look at the correct shoe: In the order books, there is no 634..  Tell them to check out their website (the English version because it is not on the French one), and to contact their main office.  This was initially a problem for me when I enquired at Antwerp (via the phone).  Apparently this shoe was not made/very limited run.  The Weston people at the French headquarters cleared it up for me. By the way, make sure you buy thier shoe waxes.  Really wonderful stuff made with beeswax.  It will make you want to eat your shoes after polishing  [​IMG] . edit: As for the wholecuts, it didn't appeal to me, but it may to you.  Do they have it there yet?  It just came out in December. I am thinking about purchasing either your split toe or the burgundy plain derby. Like you I really really like the shape of Perrys' Weston, very much a modern take on a bespoke shoe, somewhat angular, yet retaining a sleek and elegant shape. A question, did the leather darken somewhat when you polished your demi chasses?
     


  7. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    46
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Thanks for the tips. The local retailer who carries Weston only stocks the 180 loafer (in black, tan, tan and white, black shark, and brown antelope), so I have to order anything that I would be interested in. I could order through the shop in New York; but if the price is the same, I'd rather that some of my money go into the pockets of people I know and like. All of which is to say that knowing the potential problems now will help me avoid pain later. I haven't seen the wholecuts yet; maybe when I'm in New York this spring. I have to say that when I first saw pictures of the Perry shoes, I didn't like them at all. The styling really has grown on me, however, and I think that it manages to combine the modern with the classic without being over-the-top. The price is very reasonable for the level of quality you get, too. Are you considering 635 or 636 for your derby? My 637 demi-chasses have darkened a bit with polishing, although not uniformly (this is a good thing, I think). They're new, so I haven't polished them that much yet. However, my 598 demi-chasses are also tan (I would assume the same leather as the 637s), and they've antiqued noticeably over the past three years or so that I've had them.
     


  8. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    46
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Good question. If they're sold at all, I would speculate that it would be at the Limoges factory or somewhere else in France.
     


  9. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Likes Received:
    652
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    Originally posted by jcusey:
    I'm considering the stock burgundy derby or what you have: the 637 split toe. I've just gotten my first ever croc shoe and I'll see how much I wear it before going any further.

    I was asking about the darkening because I was considering the 637, and by the sound of your experience, it looks great.

    At your local Weston retailer you mentioned black shark - is that real sharkskin? I haven't seen that at the Weston store in Brussels or Antwerp. Sounds very tempting.. A white linen open neck shirt, a grey sharkskin suit and a pair of black sharkskin loafers - perfect outfit for spring/summer.
     


  10. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Likes Received:
    652
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    [​IMG] Now I'm a bit lost..... I thought the shoe I saw was a wholecut, but I think it could have been this: Weston is the bottom black shoe with broguing on the toe. Anyway the effect of the Weston I saw (wholecut or this) was like this: not too nice.
     


  11. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Likes Received:
    652
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    Here is a link to an interesting article on Weston, they mention that the "feather" is carved into the insole rather than glued: Robb Report article on J.M Weston
     


  12. A Harris

    A Harris Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    4,582
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Kissel says "To accomplish this task, Weston employs century-old Goodyear welting technology in which a half-inch leather wall, or flap, is made by cutting into the upper layer of the sole and peeling the layer upward. This wall is the piece onto which the shoemaker stitches the upper. Most shoemakers create this wall by gluing another piece of leather or even canvas onto the thin upper layer of the sole." If you look at the picture of the insole on the Weston website, then his meaning becomes clear. Go to www.jmweston.com, click "English" then "production" then "knowledge" then "the sole". Right-click on the picture and you can enlarge it. The picture is blurry (I'm sure Weston can afford a clear picture, so it must be blurry on purpose) but you can still see what their method is. It seems from the picture that they cut into the edge of the insole, peel the "flap" up to vertical and fix it in place by gluing on a backing - probably linen. This would be stronger than just a glued-on linen feather but it is still a far cry from the cut feather on a handmade shoe. If anybody figures out where the Weston seconds are sold, them make sure to let me know. I don't own any Weston's yet. I'm sure we have some French members. You could start a business - figure out where to get discounted Weston shoes and sell them to us.
     


  13. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Likes Received:
    652
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    What exatly does the feather do? Is it where the Goodyear welt stitching is attached to the upper and insole? Or is it how the insole is attached to the upper (via the welt stitching)?
     


  14. A Harris

    A Harris Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    4,582
    Likes Received:
    12
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    The welt stitching passes through the welt, then the upper leather, then the feather, in that order, from the outside in. See this link and especially this link for further explanation and pictures. So the feather anchors the welt stitching to the insole - it plays a very large part in holding the shoe together.
     


  15. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

    Messages:
    6,117
    Likes Received:
    652
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Location:
    sage
    Originally posted by A.Harris:
    OIC..
    Does that mean that for shoes with a glued on "feather" (like Greens), the glue is the only thing holding the insole to the upper? What does Weston mean by the "Wall"? I thought that the "Wall" created by carving into the insole was where the welt stitches passed thru? What would the backing be for?
     


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by