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Japanese Boot / Shoe Appreciation Thread (White Cloud, Rolling Dub Trio, John Lofgren, Clinch, etc.

Markfisher702

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Saw those on sale. Agree on the future of M-43s looking wicked after the first year. Great move picking these up. I just got some too. Damn fine boots. 11 in combats is snug / perfect for me. 11 in M-43s is a little easier of a fit around the unstructured toe box...makes room for the leather to collapse nicely. Cheers on your score.
Like this:
95B731EF-AF95-4AA5-A0E3-9F7173C40978.jpeg
 

Patek

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So I guess John and I are buddies now. I was chatting with him and he asked if I was interested in some wabi-sabi boots.

I of course said heck yeah! He messaged me today with a shot of this imperfect horsehide leather and asked me what kind of boots I wanted made with them. We both agreed that engineers are the way to go. Should be interesting.
received_239801687275489.jpeg
 

Mghart

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Ah nice! Was that the same horsehide they used on the special edition M43?
 

skyfall

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Those are horsebutt
The two ovals in the middle are where shell cordovan comes from

received_239801687275489_20200517040401425.jpg
 

ajd578

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So I guess John and I are buddies now. I was chatting with him and he asked if I was interested in some wabi-sabi boots.

I of course said heck yeah! He messaged me today with a shot of this imperfect horsehide leather and asked me what kind of boots I wanted made with them. We both agreed that engineers are the way to go. Should be interesting. View attachment 1389908
Those are horsebutt
The two ovals in the middle are where shell cordovan comes from

View attachment 1390001
Super work shoe butt.
 

Patek

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Ah nice! Was that the same horsehide they used on the special edition M43?

That would be by guess. Probably a piece rejected by regular production that John has been staring at trying to figure what to do with it.
Those are horsebutt
The two ovals in the middle are where shell cordovan comes from

View attachment 1390001
Interesting. Is there any disadvantage, besides cosmetic, to using butt?
 

skyfall

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That would be by guess. Probably a piece rejected by regular production that John has been staring at trying to figure what to do with it.


Interesting. Is there any disadvantage, besides cosmetic, to using butt?
No disadvantage at all. The leather may look stiff at first, but it will mould to your feet pretty quickly. It is also fairly easy to break in compared to the other thick leathers that I have handled.

The two hides in the picture look good! Scars and color uneveness in horsebutt are common. Thats why most makers would overdye their horsebutt to cover up minor imperfections in the leather...
 
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ajd578

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Those are horsebutt
The two ovals in the middle are where shell cordovan comes from
Curious, how can you tell these are from the part of the hide with the shell? Are you going by shape?



Related, I have the impression that strip is often marketed as butt/rump, is there a way to distinguish once it's made into a boot?

Interesting. Is there any disadvantage, besides cosmetic, to using butt?
I have heard shoemakers comment that it is difficult to last, and can often have issues with coarse, wrinkly break.
 

Patek

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Curious, how can you tell these are from the part of the hide with the shell? Are you going by shape?



Related, I have the impression that strip is often marketed as butt/rump, is there a way to distinguish once it's made into a boot?



I have heard shoemakers comment that it is difficult to last, and can often have issues with coarse, wrinkly break.
Interesting. I see Viberg has a whole line of horsebutt so they must have a technique. Either way, I was looking for something unique and I think I found it.
 

Patek

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Alright, I need some sizing help..anyone here have larger feet and have both the John Lofgren engineer and something on the Munson last (combat, M43). He is asking for sizing. Obviously, these are custom and non-returnable so I need to get it right.
 

Markfisher702

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Alright, I need some sizing help..anyone here have larger feet and have both the John Lofgren engineer and something on the Munson last (combat, M43). He is asking for sizing. Obviously, these are custom and non-returnable so I need to get it right.
I have very dialed-in sizing to Lofgren 11 from Brannock 12B for my combats and M-43 but no experience with engineers.
 

Patek

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I have very dialed-in sizing to Lofgren 11 from Brannock 12B for my combats and M-43 but no experience with engineers.
Damn, not sure where else to ask. It's not like I can stroll into a stockists and try some on.

Based on Standard and Strange, I should go 11.5 though.
 

skyfall

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Curious, how can you tell these are from the part of the hide with the shell? Are you going by shape?



Related, I have the impression that strip is often marketed as butt/rump, is there a way to distinguish once it's made into a boot?



I have heard shoemakers comment that it is difficult to last, and can often have issues with coarse, wrinkly break.
I am not an expert in leather and shoe making but I have seen the leather at a local leather supply so I know what horsebutt looks like. Yes, you can tell by the texture or the shape but the easiest way is always to feel the leather in person. Horsebutt feels more like shell cordovan while horsefronts have a softer hand like the typical horween fqhh on an hh jacket. The difference on the rough side is also obvious. The rough side is less nappy down in the butt. Re grain, can you see similarities in john's leather and the horsebutt leather on these boots?

barnstormer2_bmk8597_2.jpegBrown_Monkey_Boot_Single_Side_Leather_Lace_2_Web_400x400.pngpixlr_20160306234254905.jpg


Grain on 1.3 mm shinki pigment finished horsefront look like this

Screenshot_20200517-225240.png

Horse (butt) strips are sold by horween as a by product of shell cordovan. The mustache shaped remnants in the video are horse strips

Horween horse strips are often too narrow for shoe uppers, so its more often used for small leather crafts or welting. In japan or anywhere else outside of NA, horse strips are not sold seapartely. If you want horse strips in japan, you will need to buy a full horsebutt hide like this
image00000621.png

Horse butt and horse rump are the same thing afaik. The italian tanneries call it horse rump and the japanese call it horsebutt. Horween cuts the horsebutt into different sub sections (stripes and cordovan) and finishes them differently for sale
 

Patek

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I am not an expert in leather and shoe making but I have seen the leather at a local leather supply so I know what horsebutt looks like. Yes, you can tell by the texture or the shape but the easiest way is always to feel the leather in person. Horsebutt feels more like shell cordovan while horsefronts have a softer hand like the typical horween fqhh on an hh jacket. The difference on the rough side is also obvious. The rough side is less nappy down in the butt. Re grain, can you see similarities in john's leather and the horsebutt leather on these boots?

View attachment 1390440View attachment 1390439View attachment 1390441


Grain on 1.3 mm shinki pigment finished horsefront look like this

View attachment 1390438

Horse (butt) strips are sold by horween as a by product of shell cordovan. The mustache shaped remnants in the video are horse strips

Horween horse strips are often too narrow for shoe uppers, so its more often used for small leather crafts or welting. In japan or anywhere else outside of NA, horse strips are not sold seapartely. If you want horse strips in japan, you will need to buy a full horsebutt hide like this
View attachment 1390442

Horse butt and horse rump are the same thing afaik. The italian tanneries call it horse rump and the japanese call it horsebutt. Horween cuts the horsebutt into different sub sections (stripes and cordovan) and finishes them differently for sale
Those are some of the best looking monkey boots I have ever seen!
 

Markfisher702

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Damn, not sure where else to ask. It's not like I can stroll into a stockists and try some on.

Based on Standard and Strange, I should go 11.5 though.
S&S generally recommends same size all Lofgrens except Steadfast Chukka 1/2 larger.
 

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