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Jantzen tailor

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by banksmiranda, Aug 27, 2004.

  1. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior Member

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    [​IMG] I didn't like the way the yoke of either of my first two Jantzen shirts fit, so I drew my own pattern. Â I scanned the left side of the split yoke, which can be seen above. Â I used a marker to outline the edges. Â Note that seam allowances are not included. Â The actual dimensions are as follows: length of bottom of yoke: 9 1/4 inches (each side) height of midpoint where right and left sides of the yoke join: 1 3/8 inches height of armhole side of yoke: 1 3/4 inches length from armhole side to high point where collar meets yoke: 6 3/8 inches height from bottom of yoke to high point: 2 3/4 inches Hopefully Ricky (if he agrees to use my pattern) will adjust the patterns of the shirt front and back to properly accomodate my yoke pattern. The yokes on the previous two shirts were so ill-looking, though, that we might as well give my pattern a try. The dimensions of the yoke on the previous shirts are as follows: length of bottom of yoke: 9 1/4 inches (each side) height of midpoint where right and left sides of the yoke join: 2 3/4 inches height of armhole side of yoke: 3 1/8 inches length from armhole side to high point where collar meets yoke: 6 inches height from bottom of yoke to high point: 4 1/2 inches BTW the angled lines are drawn to indicate how I would like the yoke laid out with the stripes chevronned. Hopefully Ricky will lay out the fabric so that the stripes are parallel to the shoulder seam.
     


  2. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Distinguished Member

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    hi banks,

    can you show us pics of what you don't like on your current yokes?
     


  3. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior Member

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    Sure thing. I'm away from home until tomorrow morning, but as soon as I get home I'll get to work.
     


  4. montecristo#4

    montecristo#4 Stylish Dinosaur

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    Why stop there? Might as well create the patterns for the whole shirt.

    By the way, is your other yoke asymmetrical, or a mirror image to the one you scanned?
     


  5. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior Member

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    Literally just got back.
    The right side of my yoke pattern is a mirror image of the left side.
    I'll post info on the Jantzen yokes shortly.
     


  6. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior Member

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    Now to attempt to explain what I didn't like about the Jantzen yoke:

    First, many, many high-quality RTW shirts have the same problem as Jantzen. Marol, which makes some wonderful shirts in terms of construction, is guilty of making some of the illest yokes around.
    The primary problem is that the yoke is simply too big. The function of the yoke is to fit and "hug" the shoulders, not unlike the function of shoulder padding in suits. The inclusion of a yoke is meant to result in a better-fitting shirt. However, if the yoke is not cut properly, the only difference is an added step in the construction of a shirt. When measuring one's shoulders the measure is taken from the edge of the shoulder (feel for the bone) to the spot where the back transitions to the neck, to the edge of the other shoulder. The spot where the back transitions to the neck is slightly higher than the edges of the shoulder. You can feel this spot by bending your neck forward and feeling for the topmost part that does not move. The height of the midpoint of the yoke should be the distance from the base of the collar band to the spot where the back transitions to the neck. Ideally the base of the yoke should have a very slight curve to it. Making sure the yoke is small enough to fit just over the top of your back is crucial as the lower you go down your back, the "hollower" it is, that is, it is not as prominent, and will result in the yoke hanging loosely over the top part of your back and affect the way the shirt sits, along with the overall look of the shirt. People often complain about "sack" shirts, that is, shirts without proper taper from the chest to the waist, but a properly shaped yoke is every bit as important. Perhaps because it can really only be seen from the back and is therefore not noticed, people never seem to complain.
     


  7. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior Member

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  8. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior Member

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    The Jantzen yoke is simply too big, extending over the crucial point on my back and as a result not "gripping" my shoulders.
    I've probably done a horrible job explaining, so feel free to yell at me, "Hey, what the *&%.# are you trying to say?" and I'll try to explain/illustrate a little bit better.
     


  9. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior Member

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    Also, the seam where the bottom of the yoke and the shirt back are joined helps to provide a little "tightness," so placement of this seam is crucial and depends on the cut of the yoke.
     


  10. A Harris

    A Harris Distinguished Member Dubiously Honored

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    So Banks, are you going to be a shirtmaker one of these days?? If if you don't, I still dub you the forum's shirt guru. [​IMG]
     


  11. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior Member

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    Well, Andrew, after I graduate next year with a bachelors in political science we'll see what happens. Â I'll keep you posted. Â If I decide to follow that (shirtmaking) path I do need to have a clientele - perhaps that's where you StyleForum folk will come in handy. Â [​IMG] Â Though I take your kind words with a pinch of salt, thank you for the encouragement. Â Mr. Harris, always the gentleman.
     


  12. chocoball

    chocoball Senior Member

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    Hi, the opposite seems to be true also, though, so you have to be careful not to have a shirt made with too small a yoke. I once had one like that, and when I put it on, it felt like the short was "pulling" backwards from under my arm pits with an uncomfortable feeling in my chest and the shoulder riding upwards on my trunk. I think the size of the yoke may be different for everyone, considering the shape of your body......shoulders and chest. Perhaps only through trial and error......I have come up with a pattern now that fits comfortably and hangs well.
     


  13. Alias

    Alias Distinguished Member

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    Gee, I wish I could pursue my dream of becoming a tailor's apprentice... but I doubt there are many who would be interested in training a 22-year-old guy with an accounting degree. I have great finger dexterity, though. Just look at my Warhammer 40,000 miniatures. [​IMG] Edit: Word out to my ATHF homies
     


  14. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior Member

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    You do have a good point, Chocoball, about the risk of the yoke being too small.  I did think about that, but considering that the other yokes were too big, that I wanted Ricky to "perfect" a personal pattern for me, and that the risk for this shirt is $43, I decided that it's worth trying out.  Hopefully Ricky, who's probably been making shirts for quite some time, will use my submitted measurements to draft a pattern for a shirt that will actually fit me and ensure that the patterns for the front, back and yoke will go together properly.  Where the yoke could be too small is if he fails to adjust the front and back according to my measurements and allow the yoke to fit within.  We'll see what happens.  When I get the finished shirt I'll post about the final outcome.
     


  15. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior Member

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    The traditional tailoring apprenticeship procedure is a difficult one.  It may take five years, and the apprentice is at the mercy of the craftsmen.  What he learns and when he learns it are at the discretion of the tailor to whom the fellow is apprenticing.  Pay, in addition, is dependent on whether the jobs are deemed to have been properly done.  The thing that bugs me about apprenticeships is that the craftsmen may be short on time, having to serve their own clientele and squeeze the "teaching" somewhere in the middle of the production that they must complete.  Why can't potential apprentices at least attempt to teach themselves?  Years ago before tailoring books existed people would have had to teach themselves.  David Page Coffin (author of Shirtmaking) essentially taught himself.  He consulted a shirtmaking couple in NYC when necessary.  He ultimately became quite skilled at making shirts.  There don't seem to be too many shirtmakers willing/able to take on apprentices.  In terms of actual shirtmakers(in the USA) who make shirts on their premises, there are Geneva and Paris in NYC, Alex Kabbaz in East Hampton, Riddle-McIntyre in Chicago, and Anto in Beverly Hills.  Including those outside the USA, the list could include  Sartoria Ypsilon, Leonardo Bugelli, Simone Abbarchi, Mimmo Siviglia and Merolla e de L'ero.  I didn't want to list any who also do RTW shirts.  Correct me if I've actually listed any who do, though.  Of these, I was not impressed by what I saw of Paris Custom Shirts' product, and I highly doubt that the fellow at Riddle-McIntyre, the "one-man team," could take on an apprentice.  Alex Kabbaz is probably busy enough making shirts for a small clientele and running his art gallery/studio.  Anto I don't know about.  Mimmo Siviglia is getting up there in years.  I may be inclined to, if I decide to pursue this, at least try to teach myself the all-important measuring, pattern drafting, cutting and fitting process.  I, as practically all shirtmakers do, would look to hire skilled sempsters/seamstresses to assemble the shirts.  Thoughts?
     


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