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Jantzen tailor

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by VMan, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. MPS

    MPS Senior member

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    I own 10 Jantzen shirts, and I honestly think they're as good as my T & A shirts.

    By the way, "flowback cuff" is Chinglish for "fold-back" cuff (i.e. double cuff). Are you referring to the cocktail cuff (a.k.a casino or gauntlet cuff)?
     
  2. VMan

    VMan Senior member

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    I'm not sure...when I look at the pictures it looks like a double-cuff except it buttons instead of closes with cufflinks. The JT picture is hard to tell how it works.
     
  3. j

    j Senior member Admin

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    New and Lingwood's "Casino Cuff" Maybe that name comes from the possibility of hiding cards in the cuff. I don't know. I'm pretty sure the fold-back cuff is based on the old long English cuffs which extended out around the hand. You will see them in some period movies (not sure what period). They look like an open funnel around the hand, with the button in the regular place but extra material beyond. If you were to make those, then fold them back, you would get a "fold-back" or what JT calls "flowback" cuff.
     
  4. montecristo#4

    montecristo#4 Senior member

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    I recently ordered a shirt from Janzten (at least, I think I did--I submitted my order and it sent me back a summary, but there was no real confirm that they were going to build the shirt).

    At about $40 a pop I figure even if I measured myself wrong the first time, I haven't broken the bank if things come back the wrong size. For $40 a shirt, you can afford some iteration. This is unlike other custom shirt vendors I have tried where they make you a $250 shirt (or worse, a set of shirts) and get it wrong, leaving you pretty much hosed.

    It never ceases to amaze me how shirt vendors with good reputations can screw things up. I had a first shirt made by New & Lingwood, where I specifically told them to do a 16 1/2" collar. The shirt came back at 16", and that was before washing. The sleeves were way too short, and the shirt was so short (with big side vents) that the vents had a tendency not to stay completely tucked in. Extremely disappointing. I will say, though, that the construction of the shirt was excellent.

    M#4
     
  5. banksmiranda

    banksmiranda Senior member

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    Connery's Bond wore flowback/fold back/casino/cocktail([​IMG]) cuffs.
     
  6. Downtowner

    Downtowner Active Member

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    Jan 21, 2004
    This has been a most informative thread. I remain curious, though: can anyone explain why Jantzen's shirts are, say, about 1/2 the price of the shirts on W.W. Chan's website? They are both located in Hong Kong, so presumably the labor cost is not accounting for the difference. Am I to understand that other tailors (even Hong Kong) tailors are grossly marking up their merchandise, or is the fabric that Jantzen uses just that much cheaper? I'd welcome your thoughts...
     
  7. VMan

    VMan Senior member

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    There's two major cost-factors in the production of shirts: materials and labor. It's pretty obvious that labor in Asia is dirt cheap, but I think their other method of keeping costs low is buying high-quality fabric at very low closeout prices.


    I agree, this thread has been extremely informative; not only about Jantzen but on shirts/shirtmaking/sizing in general.
     
  8. j

    j Senior member Admin

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    Jantzen (from what I've read/heard) uses "surplus" fabric for all its shirts. This is what's left over when a RTW maker makes his whole run and doesn't need the rest of the fabric. It can be had for obscenely small prices, proportional to the size of the lot found, the fashion volatility and of course the initial cost. I can't remember the name of the site, but there is a company ("Fashion fabric club" or something) that sells this surplus fabric and I am positive some of it is the same I see in the swatches on Jantzen's site. This could account for much of the difference in price.

    Also Jantzen has what has been described as a "small shop in a mall with shipping companies in the other units in which only 3 or so people can cram in at a time" (paraphrasing). This low overhead and the obvious low cost of their website compared to the W.W.Chan branding and image would probably account for the rest of the difference.
     
  9. rayk

    rayk Senior member

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    montecristo#4:  The "Form Confirmation" that you received from Jantzen after submitting your order is the only communication that is initially sent.  My experience has been that Ricky would email me, not always in a timely fashion, to confirm that he received and intended to execute my order.  While Ricky keeps your information on file, it is not, to my knowledge, readily available on the Jantzen website, and the summary order-page should be retained for reference, should you wish to place or make changes to subsequent orders. I have received my first Jantzen shirt of 140/2 Sea Island Quality cotton, 3.55mm MoP buttons, french cuffs, & english spread collar, and I must say that I am very pleased.  I've ordered a second shirt with a few minor changes, and anticipate its arrival.  Should I find, as I expect, that I have gotten the fit that I desire, I'll place an order for a couple dozen. While I will continue to purchase full bespoke from shirtmakers such as Geneva, Jantzen shirts are a terrific bargain and are great for everyday wear.  Another great deal is on  Carlo Franco RTW shirts.  While more than twice the price of Jantzen, and admittedly not "customizable", they are IMO truly wonderful shirts, and far superior to others in my collection for which I paid more than twice the CF price.
     
  10. naturlaut

    naturlaut Senior member

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    Feb 27, 2003
    Well, the Jantzen store is located not in a pretigious mall but an old shopping centre that caters chiefly to Philipino immigrants, and the size of the store could barely fit 5 persons at a time, hence the low overhead --- rent in Hong Kong ranked among the highest in the world.  (A 3000+ sq. ft. store front in a shopping mall costs about US$25,000/month.)  

    Jantzen probably uses very economic labour in Hong Kong, instead of China, in order to save another bit of logistics and transportation cost through China-HK custom; which is also the reason why it takes two days at most to have your shirt done.

    I have been in the store twice, accompanying a friend on his measurement and picking up his finished shirt.  The whole measurement process takes less than 5 minutes.  With the exception of arm measurements, where left and right are measured separately, other measurements were taken from the whole body (instead of measuring left and right separately).  Chest and waist aside, I think shoulder measurements should differ from left to right.

    Jantzen promises perfect stripe matching at places when it ought to match.  That is always perfectly done.  Collar styles and cuffs are preset; I don't know if you could request for anything different from those.  

    Fabrics are obviously from close-outs.  There are about 3 books, mostly 100/2 or 120/2, and a few linen/cotton (or plain linen, can't remember).  There are also some suiting fabrics if you want to make a suit.

    Ricky is betting on customers who will order large quantities, instead of just one shirt at a time.  He is quite well known among expatriates in Hong Kong, who will gladly order 10 shirts at a shot (well, it's only US$37 a shirt, which is dirt cheap to most).

    I am planning on paying another visit to Mr. Ho, probably during the afternoon, as lunch time is really busy at the shop.  He is a very nice gentleman who proudly displays his shirt on himself, and a great tour guide for shopping in Hong Kong.
     
  11. Alias

    Alias Senior member

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    edited because I'm a moron
     
  12. montecristo#4

    montecristo#4 Senior member

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    Alias, you misread my email. The shirt I received with short sleeves and a mis-sized colar was from New and Lingwood--not Jantzen.
     
  13. Alias

    Alias Senior member

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    Oh snap. My bad.
     
  14. VMan

    VMan Senior member

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    Play nicely, kids.
     
  15. BjornH

    BjornH Senior member

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    Eric,

    I tried a form fit from jantzen and it turned out well and I will be ordering them like that in the future. Trouble starts, when one fudges the measurements as well to make it slimmer - that's when you see trouble.

    One extra hint: I've had to order my sleeves longer on my second shirt than my measurements had indicated and that seems to happen a lot. It seems that JT has different methods of measuring the sleves.

    Bjorn
     
  16. BjornH

    BjornH Senior member

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    Hmmm - the shirt I'm waiting for is my third single shirt order as I'm still fine tuning my measurements. Perhaps I'm beeing blacklisted because of that  [​IMG] B EDIT: (few hours later...) Got a letter tonight from Ricky - seems the order never got through in the first place and he's going to make it right away - no harm done and I'm looking forward to my white 140s with connery cuffs. What was really funny is that he's taking notice of what we say here - at least he assured me that I was not on any blacklist . Had 4 of my friends over tonight and measured them for JT so I felt a lot more comfortable about that after Ricky's letter.
     

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