Italian shoes anyone?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by TYKOSHIRO, Nov 27, 2004.

  1. TYKOSHIRO

    TYKOSHIRO Active Member

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  2. PHV

    PHV Senior member

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    Is it something I'm not understanding or a racist joke that the lace up shoes are labeled "race up".
     
  3. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It's a Japanese website. You'll see such mispellings frequently on them. Not that unusual if you consider how you would probably spell in Japanese.
     
  4. PHV

    PHV Senior member

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    (PHV @ 27 Nov. 2004, 7:48) Is it something I'm not understanding or a racist joke that the lace up shoes are labeled "race up".
    It's a Japanese website. You'll see such mispellings frequently on them. Not that unusual if you consider how you would probably spell in Japanese.
    No, it's because the charicature Japanese person in Western comedy pronounces all their L's as Rs.
     
  5. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Be that as it may, such mispellings are common on Japanese shoe websites that I've seen.
     
  6. acole

    acole Senior member

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    Well, that caricature didn't just materialize out of thin air: offensive or not, most stereotypes are based some kind of empirical observation. Â It seems reasonable to attribute it to an innocent mishearing or mispronunciation rather than a conscious attempt at "racist humor"--I think you're reading too much into it. Â It's like that part of the Jantzen order form where Ricky asks about your "body shade". Â He ain't askin' about your sun-tan. I hope the next poster has something to say about the actual shoes on that site; I'd like to know more about some of the more obscure labels. Â Some of them look very nice indeed.
     
  7. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm not familiar with most of the labels on the website. I am somewhat familiar with Borgioli. I don't particularly like most of the Borgioli models shown there, but I have seen a number of Borgioli shoes that I do like, and I can tell you that Borgioli is capable of making some excellent shoes.
     
  8. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    I see Bonora on there as well.
     
  9. norcaltransplant

    norcaltransplant Senior member

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    I echo the sentiments about Bonora. The only pairs I've seen in person were stocked by Wilkes Bashford in SF. Styling was more conservative than the models shown on the website but nice finishing and solid construction for the price (competitive with Gravati but about as substantial as the mid-tier Santonis).
     
  10. naturlaut

    naturlaut Senior member

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    Having seen some of these brands/makers personally, I would probably vouch for Bonora and Bonora only. Bogioli is probably a distance second, and I have only seen these Bogioli in Japan. Franceschetti is quite common (isn't it) but I just don't find their lasts elegantly attractive. Having said that, I will post my review (as promised) of my recent Bonora purchase (sadly, not custom) in another thread.
     
  11. marc37

    marc37 Senior member

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    Are the Lobbs [shown in the Autumn/Winter 2004-05 collection] actually John Lobb shoes or are they some other brand of shoe?
     
  12. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    No, there is an Italian company having the trade mark Lobb's (with apostrophe) registered. I believe someone posted here, they got it registered in the 1950s or 60s when John Lobb in London obviously didn't care very much what went on in other parts of the world.

    I've seen the occasional "Lobb's" shoes on eBay, but never in a shop in Europe. It might be the name is used exclusively (or can only be used) for the Japanese market.
     
  13. Brian SD

    Brian SD Moderator

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    Originally Posted by PHV,27 Nov. 2004, 8:04
    No, it's because the charicature Japanese person in Western comedy pronounces all their L's as Rs.
    Be that as it may, such mispellings are common on Japanese shoe websites that I've seen.
    Just to clear this up - in Japanese, there is no distinction between the R and the L sound. Both of these English phonetic sounds are represented by one Japanese symbol, and since they have been conditioned not to tell the difference between R and L, they switch in and out when it seems more appopriate. What makes it funny is that the appropriateness is based on Japanese language's own linguistic standards, not on English, so native Japanese speakers seem to mess up the R and L in extra funny places when typing or speaking English. Some people consider the "L-line" of the Japanese kana (phonetic alphabet) to technically be designated as "R," while a good amount of Japanese speakers consider it to be "L" because that is closer to how they actually pronounce it. In reality, you cannot define it as "R" or "L" because to Japanese speakers, it is one sound, and is represented by one Japanese symbol. Anyone who knows a limited amount of Japanese or Linguistics will know exactly what I'm talking about but it will probably sound cryptic to others. In short - it's not a racist joke. I believe that other eastern Asian countries have similar issues with R's and L's (although not to the extent that Trey Parker and Matt Stone seem to think it) because most of the countries received their intellectual culture from Chinese scholars. Japan, for example, learned most of their information (including 14,000 writing symbols and ink painting style) from China. I believe Korea did as well. Sorry for that long bit - I really love Linguistics, and Japanese language.
     
  14. Roy

    Roy Senior member

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    No Santoni on that website? What a shame.
     
  15. RIDER

    RIDER Senior member

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    Yes, they are near Naples - not so good quality.

    I like the Borgioli boot w/medallion, if on a more chiseled last. The Zenobi are well made shoes - very near Borgioli's factory not far from Florence. Franceschetti and L&S are the same factory, slight quality difference between the lines. I thought they were over-priced.
     

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