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Is this St.Andrew suit?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by MilanoStyle, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. MilanoStyle

    MilanoStyle Senior member

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  2. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Italian RLPL is St. Andrews
    English RLPL is Chester Barrie

    And that suit, is definitely St. Andrews, the label gives it away.

    Jon.
     
  3. Renault78law

    Renault78law Senior member

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    I love it too. Stunning.
     
  4. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    what a bargain
     
  5. Mike C.

    Mike C. Senior member

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    That suits is Saint Andrews. However, not all PL clothing is Saint Andrews. The jackets with the non-working sleeve buttons are made by Cantarelli, and are priced accordingly; between $1500 and $2000. They don't make PL suits, only sportcoats.

    The Saint Andrews stuff is entirely hand made; Cantarelli doesn't have that level of handwork.
     
  6. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Cantarelli and St. Andrews is the same company, right?

    Jon.
     
  7. lisapop

    lisapop Senior member

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    St. Andrews is owned by Cantarelli. If you can spring for it, SA is the better way to go between the two. Very high quality.
    Grayson
     
  8. MilanoStyle

    MilanoStyle Senior member

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    Judging by the suit's measurment, the suit may have come from an athletic. Too bad .. The suit's chest is too big for me. [​IMG]
     
  9. Mike C.

    Mike C. Senior member

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    Yes, but don't confuse ownership with quality. Clothes made under the Saint Andrews label has significantly more handwork. This should be evident by just looking at the garment. Clothes made by Cantarelli, while high quality, don't come close the what goes into Saint Andrews.

    Saint Andrews uses horsehair canvas, and the lapels are hand stitched/rolled (one of only few makers that do this). Cantarelli uses fusing to some degree (which doesn't equal low quality, I mean... even Brioni has some degree of fusing); it also has more machine work, particularly on the canvas front.
     
  10. johnnynorman3

    johnnynorman3 Senior member

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    What are you talking about???...
     
  11. Mike C.

    Mike C. Senior member

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    Which comment? About Brioni?
     
  12. hopkins_student

    hopkins_student Senior member

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  13. johnnynorman3

    johnnynorman3 Senior member

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    About both Cantarelli and Brioni, but mainly the latter. I'm not sure whether Cantarelli produces some fused products, but I know that the Golden Fleece they produce have no fusing.

    And I'm quite certain Brioni uses no fusing -- head up to Neiman Marcus in Boston for a first hand look (they have a sweet basted Brioni coat on a tailor's form -- you can see the canvassing and their incredible pad stitching).
     
  14. Mike C.

    Mike C. Senior member

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    How do you know for sure? You can't tell by just looking, and a "pinch test" will tell you nothing.

    By fusing, I'm not talking about the chest. Brioni, RL, Cantarelli, etc... have no fusing in the chest, they are fully canvassed in the chest. Thus will qualify as a "canvassed suit." Brioni, RLPL, Oxxford, Kiton are hand canvassed, lesser priced ones are machine canvassed.

    All manufacturers use *some* degree of fusing (Kiton is entirely hand made). However, on Brioni or Cantarelli, it's so insignificant that it doesn't really matter, and in places that you couldn't even tell.

    On Cantarelli, RL, Zegna, etc... (suits priced from $1K to $2K), moderate fusing is used in the collar, and mostly in areas below the bottom button of the coat. Thus I said "some fusing." Again, it is pretty insignificant. If I didn't tell you this, you wouldn't even know. If you had a better trained eye, you could tell in areas below the first button.

    BB Golden Fleece, while a very high quality suit, isn't entirely hand made. They would literally loose money for retailing a suit at that price if it was 100% hand made/hand stitched.

    To clear things up, Brioni uses an absurd amount of handwork. I haven't seen it talked about accurately on this board, as to what it is in real life. The amount of hours that go into each coat, are the highest in the industry, next to Kiton. However, there is a bit of fusing in the collar; which doesn't make a difference.
     
  15. johnnynorman3

    johnnynorman3 Senior member

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    Mike, a suit doesn't have to be 100% handmade in order to have no fusing. A sewing machine will stitch in canvas just as well as a hand, which is why a fully canvassed suit can be priced at under $1200. If you'd like to cut open a Brioni and show me the fusing in the collar, I'm all eyes. Until then, I see this thread as doing little more than spreading misinformation.
     
  16. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    [​IMG] fusing is not synonymous with handwork
     
  17. Mike C.

    Mike C. Senior member

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    I know that a suit doesn't have to be entirely hand made for it to have no fusing. It's just that you don't understand that fusing is ubiquitous technique used in suit construction. There is a myth on this board that fusing=bad, which isn't true. It seems that you like to post about what you believe to be true, rather than actually knowing what's true.
     
  18. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I disagree with this.  First of all, it's not a sewing machine, strictly speaking.  Yes, it's a machine that sews.  But the ones I have seen were not typical sewing machines, but special ones designed specifically to pad-stitch canvas quickly on mass-produced tailored garments.  They are apparently quite expensive.

    But that's a quibble.  I definitely disagree that the machines do it as well as skilled hands.  The lapels of a machine-padded coat are too stiff and too flat, to my eyes (and fingertips).  It takes hand-work to achieve the right curvature to the roll.  The collar can be machine-padded without much loss, though the best tailors still do it by hand anyway.
     
  19. Mike C.

    Mike C. Senior member

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    Correct. The reason why hand stitching is better than machine is because the tension of the stitch must be different in certain areas. Though hand stitching will look a bit crooked the the eye, it is more prized because of this reason.

    The reason why Kiton and Brioni RTW retail for $5K is because of the hand rolled lapel. I'm sure Manton could go into a diatribe on the process of hand stitching, then ironing to get the right roll, and what that means to a garment. This is where the game of quality is won and lost. Outside of fabrics, work in this area determines the price of a suit.
     
  20. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    the question remains, (and I'm asking because I am interested, not necessarily becuase I think you are full of it) where this supposed fusing is on, say, Brioni, if it isn't in the lapels or the chest. What do you mean by a "little" fusing?
     

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