Is there a "if x then y" guide out there on suit fit?

[squelchy451]

What I mean is "if you have narrow shoulders, make such-and-such" adjustment or "if you are shorter than average, then make sure your armholes/lapels/etc is this way rather than that" (I'm just throwing sartorial terms).

I'm a car nerd, so it's easy for me to talk to my alignment guy on technical terms depending on what my car experiences on track (it's not turning too much/too little when I'm braking/on the throttle). It almost feels like a flowchart with toe angles, spring rate, etc.

I'm looking for the sartorial equivalent. I know some elements of fit are more or less universal, but others are more up to your body type, so I'm looking for something that will help me understand how different suits fit and how I can use those to fit my body type a bit better.

 

[The Noble Dandy]

I mean, it really depends on your build. There are many possible combinations that can deviate from a standard fit. Here are a couple of them that are relevant to me (lean and tall guy with narrow and sloped shoulders):

• Don't go for broad lapels, they make my chest look narrower.
• Wear jackets without padding on the shoulders, because the ones that have them usually don't look good, because of divots. That is valid, of course, only for RTW suits/jackets, because a good tailor can make any type of shoulder construction look good.
• Wear slim-fit trousers without a break to visually broaden my upper body part.
• Wear a bit shorter jacket to balance out my body proportions.

 

[squelchy451]

Right, I know there's a lot of combination of things you can do with a suit, the same way you can with a car (toe angles, spring rates, compression dampening/rebound dampening) but if there's a handy guide on what changing one aspect of a suit changes then that'd be great.

 

[breakaway01]

I am not aware of such a guide -- it's not like tuning a car's suspension for a few reasons that I can think of. First of all, I am assuming you are talking about an off-the-rack suit and not a custom or bespoke suit. There are many things that are not at all adjustable in a finished suit, and other modifications that are difficult and/or not worth the cost or risk of failure. For more than the simplest alterations, it is often difficult for the non-tailor to diagnose a problem and understand how to fix it. Finally, what you like about how a suit fits you (styling) may not be what I'd prefer. There is a distinction between fit and style. For example, a one-button single-breasted peak lapel jacket can fit you as well as a 6x2 double-breasted jacket, but obviously the styling is very different. Even for a simple notch lapel 2-button jacket, one might have a rounded "natural" shoulder and another might have a more structured, extended shoulder. Both can fit you equally well but the silhouette will look quite different. Whereas one can be much more objective in car racing (does this modification lower my lap times?) so it's easier to objectively determine what the 'right' setup should be for your car on a given track and conditions.

Where the analogy does hold up is that you should have a relationship with a good alterations tailor (like your car alignment guy) who can tell you whether a particular suit is a good starting point for your body and can be altered to fit better. The problem with many tailors is that they might understand fit but often don't really understand style, so you do have to bring your own sense to style to the table.

If the process were as easy as what you're looking for ("if A, then B") then we wouldn't have all of these discussions here on Styleforum and elsewhere. Try on a lot of different suits from different makers. Don't get too fixated on "quality" and "construction" (something that I think people who come from 'objective' hobbies like cars, technology, etc latch onto when they start getting into clothing). Instead, get a sense for what looks good on you. I would actually push back a bit on what was recommended above -- in my opinion, a good suit flatters your body, it does not necessarily accentuate it. So for example, I don't think that skinny trousers flatters most people with slim legs; instead, it often looks unbalanced and top-heavy.

 

[The Noble Dandy]

I am not aware of such a guide -- it's not like tuning a car's suspension for a few reasons that I can think of. First of all, I am assuming you are talking about an off-the-rack suit and not a custom or bespoke suit. There are many things that are not at all adjustable in a finished suit, and other modifications that are difficult and/or not worth the cost or risk of failure. For more than the simplest alterations, it is often difficult for the non-tailor to diagnose a problem and understand how to fix it. Finally, what you like about how a suit fits you (styling) may not be what I'd prefer. There is a distinction between fit and style. For example, a one-button single-breasted peak lapel jacket can fit you as well as a 6x2 double-breasted jacket, but obviously the styling is very different. Even for a simple notch lapel 2-button jacket, one might have a rounded "natural" shoulder and another might have a more structured, extended shoulder. Both can fit you equally well but the silhouette will look quite different. Whereas one can be much more objective in car racing (does this modification lower my lap times?) so it's easier to objectively determine what the 'right' setup should be for your car on a given track and conditions.

Where the analogy does hold up is that you should have a relationship with a good alterations tailor (like your car alignment guy) who can tell you whether a particular suit is a good starting point for your body and can be altered to fit better. The problem with many tailors is that they might understand fit but often don't really understand style, so you do have to bring your own sense to style to the table.

If the process were as easy as what you're looking for ("if A, then B") then we wouldn't have all of these discussions here on Styleforum and elsewhere. Try on a lot of different suits from different makers. Don't get too fixated on "quality" and "construction" (something that I think people who come from 'objective' hobbies like cars, technology, etc latch onto when they start getting into clothing). Instead, get a sense for what looks good on you. I would actually push back a bit on what was recommended above -- in my opinion, a good suit flatters your body, it does not necessarily accentuate it. So for example, I don't think that skinny trousers flatters most people with slim legs; instead, it often looks unbalanced and top-heavy.

I second that, especially the part about tailors not understanding the style. This is where a style expert/consultant comes into the game. The one that knows about suits, their fits, body proportions, etc. There is no guarantee that you will get quality advice at the shop and the tailor can make you a high-quality suit that will not flatter your body type.

So, my recommendation would be to find someone with experience and knowledge who can tell you what looks good on you and what does not. It's the same thing when you are buying your first car and have no idea (I know I hadn't), which one is going to fulfill your needs best. You ask a friend (the one who actually knows about cars and not just pretends to know) for advice.

@breakaway01 the list above is only for me personally. Those are the things that I look for in suits because then they flatter my body. And I was talking about slim fit, not skinny fit trousers I totally agree with you that skinny ones in most cases are very unflattering.

 

[gimpwiz]

I'm a big car guy. Work on my cars, etc.

I only bring my sports cars to be aligned at like two shops. Dailies only need a simple straight alignment, but cars seeing time at closed courses need more knowledge. A great tailor is like a great alignment shop, they have a huge amount of knowledge based on both theory and real experience to make things just so.

With that said, yknow, alignment has, in theory, three measurements per wheel and that's it. There's only a few adjustments, and you need to put in new hardware to go beyond factory allowances. A suit has... almost an infinite spectrum, and if you really wanted to quantify every single possible measurement I suspect you would find over a hundred. And you know how it goes, combinations of measurements multiply, along continuous spectra...

And part of that is obviously because cars are engineered for precision (unless it's a GM car. Just kidding, I have three. Well, half kidding.) Imagine if instead of mcpherson struts having three bolt holes at the strut tower, the strut tower had a big hole and you were expected to carefully measure their final position based on your alignment spec preferences, fab a custom plate, and weld it to the tower. For every car taken to an alignment shop, they would consider re-making and re-welding that plate, for every corner, to provide a continuous spectrum of adjustment. By hand, obviously, not by machine. Crazy right?

Anyways with all that said. I know there exist books written by master tailors that essentially can be referenced for "if this then that." I seem to recall for example that Ryan at Tailor's Keep (or was it Joe doing the alterations on the second floor) has a number of such books, some in other languages. However I don't know how to find such books. I can tell you to buy Dennis Grant's book on setting your car up for autocross but not the mythical tomes on tailoring.

 

[JFWR]

There is a trend of obscurantism about fits and style on Styleforum.

Whereas I do agree that the sophisticated, in depth analysis of style would probably require discussion of a million different considerations, more general, rule of thumb like declarations can be had far more cheaply.

I'd look at the general men's wear advice columns and spokesmen (like Hugo Jacomet) and the like to get a sense of what you should look for. There have been written multiple guides on this subject that try to answer what to do in common circumstances. Whether you're fat or thin, tall or short, long legged or short legged, broad chested or narrow chested, etc, there almost certainly has been such guides written.