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Is the taste on this forum too "nouveau riche"?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan Jr., Dec 22, 2008.

  1. mafoofan Jr.

    mafoofan Jr. Senior member

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    I hate to use that nr word but it is what it is. I see a lot of brand oriented suggestions for everything. Occasionally, I see fine examples of bespoke, but that fetch a hefty price tag, and perhaps people here use the cost to explicitly imply quality. I see very little suggestions for less well known makers who may produce a quality product at a good price, and thereby offer higher value for their wares.

    I like local goods, and being in the Midwest, there are many small family owned shops that cater to my needs, from clothes, fine accessories, to small leather goods. I wonder why so few of these shops are mentioned on this forum? I use the namesake of a certain individual here because I think he's a good subject for analytical consumerism, viewed through the lens of the Veblenian "instincts for emulation." Is a Charvet pocketsquare that much better in quality from a handmade (I can sew) silk square? What about other fine accessories such watches and pen? I wear a vintage 14K Hamilton watch I got at a flea market many years ago and still have it. I use a Sheaffer PFM V snorkel, more advanced mechanically and better built than many pens from firms like Mont Blancs or ST Dupont. It costs me $78 at an ebay auction. My Sarome lighter from Japan is better built than many that costs much more (Dupont, Cartier, etc...) from Europe.

    I invite your thoughts on this subject.

    -Junior
     
  2. Tarmac

    Tarmac Senior member

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    Why don't you show us your great midwest-made goods instead of keeping all the secrets to yourself?
     
  3. dbtbandit67

    dbtbandit67 Senior member

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    i dont think it's because the members of this forum are intentionally snubbing the little guy for big corporations, i think its because corporate products are more available to the mainstream. since they have more stores in more locations and are likely to have a big online presence, thats why big brands get most of the mention. the brands you are talking about are very much restricted to the people that know about them. if they could get more exposure i'm sure the members here would talk about them just as much
     
  4. mafoofan Jr.

    mafoofan Jr. Senior member

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    Too lazy to write reviews...perhaps one day when I have access to a decent camera and some extra time.

    Why don't you show us your great midwest-made goods instead of keeping all the secrets to yourself?
     
  5. Tarmac

    Tarmac Senior member

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    so you have your answer, we are shallow and nouveau riche due to your lazy ass.
     
  6. rach2jlc

    rach2jlc Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I hate to use that nr word but it is what it is. I see a lot of brand oriented suggestions for everything. Occasionally, I see fine examples of bespoke, but that fetch a hefty price tag, and perhaps people here use the cost to explicitly imply quality. I see very little suggestions for less well known makers who may produce a quality product at a good price, and thereby offer higher value for their wares.

    I like local goods, and being in the Midwest, there are many small family owned shops that cater to my needs, from clothes, fine accessories, to small leather goods. I wonder why so few of these shops are mentioned on this forum? I use the namesake of a certain individual here because I think he's a good subject for analytical consumerism, viewed through the lens of the Veblenian "instincts for emulation." Is a Charvet pocketsquare that much better in quality from a handmade (I can sew) silk square? What about other fine accessories such watches and pen? I wear a vintage 14K Hamilton watch I got at a flea market many years ago and still have it. I use a Sheaffer PFM V snorkel, more advanced mechanically and better built than many pens from firms like Mont Blancs or ST Dupont. It costs me $78 at an ebay auction. My Sarome lighter from Japan is better built than many that costs much more (Dupont, Cartier, etc...) from Europe.

    I invite your thoughts on this subject.

    -Junior


    You just need to search more and read more; there are TONS of suggestions here of all sorts of smaller, off-the-radar makers for everything from suits to luggage to whetting stones. That's half the fun of reading posts here; finding out about new stuff you never knew existed. It's no fun just to talk about the same five brand you already know...
     
  7. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    I hate to use that nr word but it is what it is. I see a lot of brand oriented suggestions for everything.

    The fast and incomplete answer to your question is, "yes." Men who learn from their fathers, uncles, etc. about how to dress well are an unlikely group of people to be congregating on an internet forum, and so are few in number in comparison to those who are trying to learn something new rather than executing knowledge from familial or dynastic DNA. Hell, they are few in number from any standpoint...it's a nearly extinct species of man.

    The first of your secondary points...on whether contemporary luxury goods or brands represent value...is a valid one. Value, however, is of interest only to those whose means limit what they may acquire painlessly or to people for whom chewing nickels to spit dimes is a psychological hobby. What is bankrupting for some is trivial for another.

    The second of your secondary points concerning the glories of the midwest is intriguing. If those glories are based on the small, local shop, one explanation is that such shops are equally ubiquitious elsewhere. Another is that perhaps many of these small shops are not really notable. If you have some, tell us their stories.

    Finally, while the PFM is a nice vintage pen, I'm not going to be in your camp about it being superior to a Dupont Orpheo/Olympio, either from a writing or construction quality standpoint. But, pens are highly personal.

    Build up on your points...they are interesting.

    - B
     
  8. Sanguis Mortuum

    Sanguis Mortuum Senior member

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    I see very little suggestions for less well known makers who may produce a quality product at a good price, and thereby offer higher value for their wares.

    Are you reading the same forum as I am? The vastly overwhelming impression I get is the precise opposite, that people here value quality and fit over anything else, including price and 'labels'...
     
  9. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    My favorite gloves were purchased at a rest stop in West Virginia. Seriously. They are calf and oh so soft.
     
  10. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    Two thoughts:

    1. Why does "brand snob" mean "nouveau riche"? I don't get that. The British Royals are reasonably "old" money, and I don't see any Royal warrants on Wal Mart or Tesco. Rather, they are on places where, for instance, you have to spend $500 to buy an umbrella. Buying expensive things isn't "nouveau." Buying expensive things for the purpose of showing off is.

    2. Is having "new money" because one was able to make a success of oneself something to frown at? Never understood that. Seems to me, for instance, the man who attains peerage on his own merits deserves more acclaim than the 10th Earl of Whatever who was born into the position... Again, isn't the issue how one carries oneself rather than how much money one has or how one has attained it?
     
  11. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    Sometimes, people are admired or respected or included for having money: this is the quality of commanding means.

    Sometimes, people are admired or respected or included for how they discharge their money: this is the quality of having or lacking taste.

    Sometimes, people are admired or respected or included for how their ancestors had or discharged their money: this is the quality of having lineage.

    Sometimes, people have two or even three of these qualities. But having one does not give you access to the other two inherently.

    But whatever the qualities, the fact remains that most people will hate, despise or envy you, because the odds are high that you are an asshole.

    Why are those odds high? Becaue they are high for everyone.


    - B
     
  12. Nouveau Pauvre

    Nouveau Pauvre Senior member

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    ^ Remarkably insightful. There is some zen poetry in your conclusion.
     
  13. Razele

    Razele Senior member

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    I think that there tend to be both.

    There are people who go for the new rich stuff - LV, rolex as examples.

    When I first started here there was some guy asking wether to buy a D&G or Armani jacket. It was like 3k, and they were both terrible.

    One of the seniors said that he should call Aero of Scotland and get the "only leather jacket he would ever need."

    People have reccommended multiple times to go to a local cloth merchant and procure fine white linen for a pocket square. People also reccommemd Kent Wang, who isn't expensive.

    Also, RM williams is highly reccomended here - 200 usd for a mto boot with the option of brass screwed soles. There are also a bunch of leather work guys over in the streetwear forum
    Making mto.

    The major thing that alot of people say is that they aren't 100% satisfied buying cheaper quality stuff, and it becomes a false economy. I agree with that 100%. I've spent heaps not getting what I want, and won't be making that mistake again.
     
  14. bluemagic

    bluemagic Senior member

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    Oct 3, 2008
    Sometimes, people are admired or respected or included for having money: this is the quality of commanding means.

    Sometimes, people are admired or respected or included for how they discharge their money: this is the quality of having or lacking taste.

    Sometimes, people are admired or respected or included for how their ancestors had or discharged their money: this is the quality of having lineage.

    Sometimes, people have two or even three of these qualities. But having one does not give you access to the other two inherently.

    But whatever the qualities, the fact remains that most people will hate, despise or envy you, because the odds are high that you are an asshole.

    Why are those odds high? Becaue they are high for everyone.


    - B


    [​IMG]
     
  15. rach2jlc

    rach2jlc Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Monaco
    i dont think it's because the members of this forum are intentionally snubbing the little guy for big corporations, i think its because corporate products are more available to the mainstream. since they have more stores in more locations and are likely to have a big online presence, thats why big brands get most of the mention. the brands you are talking about are very much restricted to the people that know about them. if they could get more exposure i'm sure the members here would talk about them just as much
    Wow... that's some majorly fake Gucci shit you are selling/linking. If those aren't all your auctions, you might want to double check to what you are linking.. some of those shoes on there are so fake you can smell them a mile away...
     
  16. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    Where Eagles Dare!
    See my thread on Safeway Select products. This is where my taste/budget takes me. I might be nouveau pauvre. I used to have more money. For a minute. [​IMG]
     
  17. allreds

    allreds Senior member

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    Dec 11, 2008
    Nope. These just exude the class of old money.
    [​IMG]
    Augusta x Atelier


    [​IMG]
     
  18. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    Nope. These just exude the class of old money.
    [​IMG]



    It's hilarious how middle-class values are assimilated to "old money" values on this forum.
     
  19. Recoil

    Recoil Senior member

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    There may be alot of brand love on this forum but for the most part people are recommending brands of higher quality for the same money. For example, someone comes on and asks about an Armani overcoat and a poster recommends Canali instead. I think this is because to recommend someone go Bespoke over Armani is too much of a step, but to switch to a better brand is easy. If someone asked about a 5K OTR suit, the alternative to that is going bespoke and quite a reasonable response in that case.

    That is the best example I can think of now. But for the most part I think this forum is pretty liberal when it comes to recommending things other than classic brand names, and for the most part, when they do recommend brands, they are recommending quality brands over lesser quality brands.
     
  20. 1400PennAve

    1400PennAve Active Member

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    Do you really think that the British royalty pay a single pence for anything?
     

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