Is it really worth it to buy expensive shoes?

[jonathanS]

I know you didn't originate the metaphor but the truth of the matter is that bespoke is not necessarily comparable to the 2m dollar car.

What it all comes down to is the difference between authenticity and pretense.

Those people who appreciate fine things, who aspire to quality and excellence, almost inevitably gravitate towards more expensive anything simply because excellence cannot be found in the factory or in the mundane. By definition, it demands more effort and more insight and more focus and more energy to create. When it comes to shoes, at the highest levels bespoke, handwelted sets a standard that cannot be even approached by mass manufacturing. At the lowest levels, it is still heads and shoulders above most RTW simply because of the materials and techniques that created it.

But there is a class of people who don't get it. Who don't appreciate what the word "quality" means. Who literally cannot see or acknowledge the difference between a $600.00 mass-manufactured shoe and a $1500.00 mass-manufactured shoe...nevermind a $2000.00.. bespoke shoe. And it's not that the differences are too subtle to see, it is simply that it is too much effort to to embrace the concept. Most often those people are just ignorant--they haven't tried or had enough experience to understand the distinction. Or their priorities and economic circumstances force them to make excuses and justify their dismissive attitudes. [Parenthetically, how many in this discussion have more than 100 posts on this forum? How many have more than 500? How many of those seem a bit dismissive of the value of things and ideas they cannot afford?]

All that's fine...not everyone has the means or the desire to pursue excellence. I don't--not in my everyday life although I pursue it in my work to the point of obsession.

But there is another class of people who gravitate towards whatever is fashionable or expensive simply for the sake of appearance. They really don't know or want to know why something is considered better or even best. All they want is the box. And the bragging rights. They are perpetually distracted by the silver gum wrapper...never realizing or caring that it isn't real silver. And, unfortunately there are many more people like that in western consumer society than otherwise.

And just by their numbers and insouciance, they drive attitudes and expectations and prices.

And that's why most cachet brand RTW shoes are over-priced. You're not paying for the quality or excellence or workmanship, or even better techniques and materials. You're paying for the shine and the designer (who in reality is an underappreciated artist...at least in their own minds) and the right to say "that shoe cost me $xxxx.xx."

A quality, handwelted bespoke shoe does not have to cost more than $2k and that's hardly comparable to a $2m car. Not when many mass manufactured RTW brands are that or more.

The pretense begins in inexperience and ignorance (often wilful) and percolates upward through every strata of consumer society.

If the same thinking were applied to wine or suits or watches...or even Art...nothing would rise above the commonplace. And while that might reduce the level of pretense and self-absorption in society simply by reducing everyone to the lowest common denominator it would impoverish us all.

In my professional opinion...

My point was Allen Edmonds were the toyota corrolla. Bespoke shoes, AFAIK, are closer to 4k than 2k, if not more. Others, even more.

 

[DWFII]

My point was Allen Edmonds were the toyota corrolla. Bespoke shoes, AFAIK, are closer to 4k than 2k, if not more. Others, even more.

Not necessarily, I have first hand, personal, intimate knowledge...and a unique and privileged perspective....to the contrary.

And FWIW, to some extent the all the things I said above regarding what "drives attitudes and expectations and prices" applies to bespoke makers as well. I say "to some extent" because clearly some bespoke makers are expending far more effort...if only to create the shine...than others.

What is comparable to a $2m car is not a $2k or even $4k pair of bespoke shoes, but a $25,000.00 pair of RTW alligator boots by Hermes.

 

[lestyr3]

Interesting. Your question cuts to the heart of what we're doing on this site.

We can talk about improvements in comfort, and our differing experiences in that. We can talk about leather quality - personally, once you start hitting the AE etc level is where the leather takes shines better and more importantly has a depth to it that you can't really economize. We can also talk about improvements in styling, and can even talk about the philosophical value of getting something that's built the right way.

But really, for you as a consumer, the question of "What's worth my money?" boils down to, "What is good enough?" To that, I say that like any good known to economics there is a risk in purchasing it, and diminishing returns. 10 years ago I wore Clarks. 6 years ago I wore Red Wings, Allen Edmonds, and stuff off Gilt - some of that is beloved, some is just used, and some is not around anymore. Nowadays I mainly wear excellent ready to wear - JM Weston, Vass, Alden, etc - and while some are a huge step up from Edmonds some aren't used as much as I thought. So a $800 shoe tends to be somewhat better than a $400 shoe, and by the same token a $400 MSRP shoe is at least three times better than a $100 shoe. And so here's the other thing: I couldn't predict when I bought them what would be beloved, and what wouldn't get used! I bought all of them because I loved them at the time, but whether they'd fit my lifestyle, needs, and (lest we forget) "feet" 5 years later wasn't written.

So to your question: I don't know. In some ways, you're asking the wrong people, because I/we are hobbyists about this stuff. But we're hobbyists for a reason, and understanding our tastes, my recommendation is this:

Go into an Allen Edmonds (or whatever your tastes and checkbook dictate), get your feet fitted, get 2 pairs of shoes, and see how you feel about them 3 years later.

 

[jonathanS]

Not necessarily, I have first hand, personal, intimate knowledge...and a unique and privileged perspective....to the contrary.

And FWIW, to some extent the all the things I said above regarding what "drives attitudes and expectations and prices" applies to bespoke makers as well. I say "to some extent" because clearly some bespoke makers are expending far more effort...if only to create the shine...than others.

What is comparable to a $2m car is not a $2k or even $4k pair of bespoke shoes, but a $25,000.00 pair of RTW alligator boots by Hermes.

Sigh. Irrelevant to initial point. Someone else brought up the 2m car. Fine. Or maybe bespoke alligator boots. Whatever.

 

[jonathanS]

Interesting. Your question cuts to the heart of what we're doing on this site.

We can talk about improvements in comfort, and our differing experiences in that. We can talk about leather quality - personally, once you start hitting the AE etc level is where the leather takes shines better and more importantly has a depth to it that you can't really economize. We can also talk about improvements in styling, and can even talk about the philosophical value of getting something that's built the right way.

But really, for you as a consumer, the question of "What's worth my money?" boils down to, "What is good enough?" To that, I say that like any good known to economics there is a risk in purchasing it, and diminishing returns. 10 years ago I wore Clarks. 6 years ago I wore Red Wings, Allen Edmonds, and stuff off Gilt - some of that is beloved, some is not used, and some is not around anymore. Nowadays I mainly wear excellent ready to wear - JM Weston, Vass, Alden, etc - and while some are a huge step up from Edmonds some aren't used as much as I thought. So a $800 shoe tends to be somewhat better than a $400 shoe, and by the same token a $400 MSRP shoe is at least three times better than a $100 shoe. And so here's the other thing: I couldn't predict when I bought them what would be beloved, and what wouldn't get used! I bought all of them because I loved them at the time, but whether they'd fit my lifestyle, needs, and (lest we forget) "feet" 5 years later wasn't written.

So to your question: I don't know. In some ways, you're asking the wrong people, because I/we are hobbyists about this stuff. But we're hobbyists for a reason, and understanding our tastes, my recommendation is this:

Go into an Allen Edmonds (or whatever your tastes and checkbook dictate), get your feet fitted, get 2 pairs of shoes, and see how you feel about them 3 years later.

Not a bad idea. 2 years ago I was filling my closet with Allen Edmonds. Then I found Alfred Sargent & then Edward Green. Once I hit green I never looked back. All those Crockett’s & sargents have been relegated to bad weather days & Allen Edmonds have been relegated to storage. I get not spending 800 per shoe. But try sargents

 

[mreams99]

I buy Allen Edmonds shoes (mostly) to get a good fit. With multiple lasts and widths, you should be able to find something that fits well. I have a narrow foot, so this is important to me.

 

[Caustic Man]

Cole Haan doesn't make a bad shoe, you know. I have an old pair of loafers from them that have been abused and keep on going. I'll get rid of them whenever they fall apart, which doesn't seem like it will happen anytime soon.

I have mostly Allen Edmonds shoes in my collection, FWIW.

 

[pasadena man]

I have a few items I bought at OP's point in life that are still going strong and giving me pleasure thirty years later: a Rolex Datejust, a Burberry trench, and three pairs of Churches (pre-Prada!). I bought them on the principle, oft stated on SF, that it is worth it to get the best quality you can afford, as you will both enjoy the item more, and the cost per wear will be, if not cheaper or comparable, at least competitive with the less expensive option. Despite some post purchase jitters, all of those purchases turned out to be the best investments I have made in their respective categories.

 

[DWFII]

Interesting. Your question cuts to the heart of what we're doing on this site.

Spoiler

We can talk about improvements in comfort, and our differing experiences in that. We can talk about leather quality - personally, once you start hitting the AE etc level is where the leather takes shines better and more importantly has a depth to it that you can't really economize. We can also talk about improvements in styling, and can even talk about the philosophical value of getting something that's built the right way.

But really, for you as a consumer, the question of "What's worth my money?" boils down to, "What is good enough?" T

So to your question: I don't know. In some ways, you're asking the wrong people,
.

Several issues here I suspect need to be addressed..

First, what are we doing here if all we're really doing is justifying our reasons for not being as "well dressed" or as "quality minded" or as informed as we think we ought to be? Or not spending more than $xx on a given item.

I am always astonished at the number of people who insist on questioning the morality, ethics or just plain political correctness of using leather for making shoes. It's a fool's game and a fool's question esp. in the context of this forum. And the obvious...and in your face motivation...is always confrontation.

This topic is on a similar level. If you want to talk about off-the rack suits under $200.00 you should be posting to a Gap or Walmart forum.

If you want to talk about how to save money while simulating excellence the Pinch-Penny forum might be a better bet.

Price is always commensurate (if not entirely one-to-one) with more--more quality, more flash, more cachet, more ignorance.

And the second issue is that with rare exceptions most folks that enter into these kinds of discussions (and even many on this forum) don't really and truly know what the difference is or why a "better" shoe is more expensive and/or costs more than a lower tier shoe. Ask them to detail (or more importantly compare) the techniques, the advantages of one leather over another, or even what a correct fit entails or consists of and you'll get blanks looks and vague mumbles.

For instance, that a leather shines better or has "depth" or patina does not necessarily indicate better quality.

 

[DWFII]

I have a few items I bought at OP's point in life that are still going strong and giving me pleasure thirty years later: a Rolex Datejust, a Burberry trench, and three pairs of Churches (pre-Prada!). I bought them on the principle, oft stated on SF, that it is worth it to get the best quality you can afford, as you will both enjoy the item more, and the cost per wear will be, if not cheaper or comparable, at least competitive with the less expensive option. Despite some post purchase jitters, all of those purchases turned out to be the best investments I have made in their respective categories.

 

[NJE66]

Going off the OP topic, but as a fellow wine lover, I was delighted to see your pics of your wine cellar. Seems you like Barolo on the right with Rhone wines above that, and Bordeaux at the back with super Tuscans above them. I polish my shoes within a step from my wine cellar, and it's my favorite private space.

Thank you Sir, and nice with a fellow wine enthusiast! Being close to your wines when giving love for the shoes, that's what living is. And you are right on target regarding the regions. Obviously some more shelves for Barolo and Rhône Syrah (can´t get to many Hermitage or Côte-Rôtie). And sweet Tokaj, Sauturnes and Port. And the new world. And…


Just like building a shoe wardrobe. Raw material (grape or calf hide). Extraction/numbers of cut. Construction/vinification. Tradition and knowledge. Man hours. Location and climate (don ́t know jack about calf hide but maybe there actually some Kobe-quality circumstances generating better material). I guess there is a point when you objectively hit some kind of quality sweet spot, and after that diminishing return no matter amount of man hours. Producer fame and bias (knowing I´m drinking one of few reaming bottles from 1928 from a certain producer, “must be great then” or G&G being big on SF, “must be true then” , my belt is made out of an animal soon to be extinct etc). But if one being a beer guy, what it's worth?

One thing beyond fit, aesthetics and feeling like the man is the fact that my feet are doing so much better in leather soles and quality natural material when wearing shoes indoor all day. Another perspective I appreciate is generating work for my local cobbler who is a traditionalist and well educated craftsman. I can´t justify the environmental aspects for myself, consuming more shoes than I actually needs.

Maftei and Jan Kielman, you can go bespoke for a reasonable amount of money. Still many will chase after a pair of EG.

The OP asked

My loaded question is this, do you feel it is really warranted to step up to Allen Edmonds level of shoe?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. Also, what others shoe makers am I not thinking of that are good quality? Keep in mind I am frugal. but could go up if warranted. Finally, do you have any go-to sources for good deals on shoes? Black Friday? Nordstrom Rack? What about AE seconds? Are those any good?

Caustic man and some others actually answered his questions. Interesting discussion but the rest of us are mainly dicking around on our own little crusades.

 

[Jared Delaney]

Thanks for the replies everyone, I do appreciate it. To bring this back in a little, this whole situation reminds of a basic philosophy train of thought which is "if you don't know the higher pleasures of something, are you really missing out?" With that in mind, I see nothing wrong with the shoes I wear now as they do what they are supposed to do and feel good on my feet. However, I do understand I can jump to AE's for really not much more. Now I just need to find a student to order them for me for a 25% discount haha. In the end, being frugal, my financial investments are more important to me than shoes, and doing those well would allow me to get the finer things later. Just have to be true to myself and never abandon my personal convictions of living far outside of my means.

It's been awesome learning about the higher shoe makers and researching them! I have no doubt they are amazing.

 

[Andy57]

Wait...silver gum wrappers aren’t real silver?

 

[DWFII]

Wait...silver gum wrappers aren’t real silver?

Hell, if a person were to collect about 5 large paper bags of them, melt 'em down and pour off the bullion, he might be able to afford a a step-up from $200 shoes.

 

[grc1]

Nice to see my (unabashedly expensive) shoes are the headline banner for this interesting thread!

I long ago stopped to trying to justify to myself why I shell out the sums I do. I adjust my lifestyle to accommodate, and make sure that my family is provided for. Beyond the fact that a shoe fits, the technicalities of leather quality, construction and finishing versus price point are quickly lost in a warm comforting sea of subjectivity that SF'ers just love to paddle about in. Indeed, it is the lifeblood of the SF community .