Is it "all about winning"?

[BDC2823]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

^^^ BDC, yeah but you are looking from a pure "what is the best way to win" perspective, which in some cases requires holding on to the farm.

I'm saying if I could guarantee the Mets would win the WS in 2 years by trading away Reyes, Wright, Pelfrey, and Ike Davis, I would not take it. Yeah, I'm serious.

I guess I just don't see the point of a team "winning it" if it's just a hodgepodge group of bros. I want "my guys" to win it. That means something to me, the other doesn't really. Like I said, sports are only interesting because we are emotionally invested. I am more invested in the players than the name on the uniform. By adding players gradually, you can maintain the core and the team identity while still improving the team. If you do wholesale changes and uproot the soul of the team completely, that is a turnoff to me as a fan.

But we are all different, which is why I ask.

Hypothetical: Would a Knicks fan support the Knicks if in 1995 they traded all 12 players for the Bulls 12? Yeah, they would be better. But is it really the Knicks? By looking at extremes like this, you can figure out how much you really care about the name on the uniform vs. the team character.

I'd trade away every guy on any of my teams (Kobe and Pau would be tough to swallow) for them to be guaranteed to win the championship. Players come and go and I'm more attached to the team than any of the players involved.

Why do you call them "my guys"? Cause your team drafted them or they came through the farm? I don't exactly understand the emotional attachment to certain players (there are exceptions for what they have done for the team/city ala Brees in NO, Manning in Indy, Kobe, Chipper Jones in ATL, etc.) However, for the most part the players don't have these attachments. They went where they were drafted/traded to without allegiance to that team. That's why they leave for the money for the most part. '

Take John Lackey. Angels fans were pissed that Lackey left the Angels for their rival the Red Sox. Supposedly Angels fans consider the Red Sox a huge rival but I'd guess Red Sox fans don't consider the Angels as a rivalry. I've met that goofy bastard out at the bars before and he still goes out when they play in Anaheim. He left for the money and why shouldn't he? The BoSox were willing to pay him what the Angels weren't. Yet Angels fans got all butt hurt about him leaving. The guy is a baseball player and why would he have any allegiance to Anaheim? It's not like it was his dream to play for Anaheim. So why do fans have such allegiance to these guys?

Everyone has certain guys on their teams that they like more than others and don't wanna see them go. But if it's better for the team then I'm all for it. They come back to play against us and I'll give them a standing ovation for what they did when they were with my team. But no need to hold onto guys for sentimental reasons if they aren't going to make the team better. After all, that's just a roster spot being held that is potentially keeping another player from coming up and becoming the next guy that becomes a fan favorite and takes over as the face of the franchise.

All those Packers fans hurt by Favre leaving (and I'd admit that had I been a Packers fan it would have been a tough pill to swallow) may never have had the chance to have Rodgers as their QB now. Saints fans wouldn't have Brees without the trade the Saints made with San Diego.

Your Mets wouldn't have Santana if they were concerned with just keeping their homegrown players and not trying to put the best team on the field to win.

 

[MetroStyles]

I don't understand how you are trying to take the sentimentality out of sports, yet continue to support a team?

Why do you support the team?

I mean, did the owner buy your grandpa a kidney when he needed it? Did you win $1,000,000 betting on the Dodgers? There is no point in liking a team other than pure dumb sentimentality.

I stand by my statement that I would rather never watch another Mets game than have them swap rosters with the Yankees and win the WS. I really would see no point.

And of course the players don't give a **** (for the most part). That's a given. I don't have any pretenses there.

 

[sunror]

you're creating fictional scenarios that don't actually exist.

let's look at the santana trade - 'home grown' player (or not? he was originally signed by the astros, then went to the marlins, then to the twins...) gets traded for four prospects. prospects start contributing in two or three years, are now 'home grown' for the twins. team allocates its budget elsewhere, makes postseasn easily. now team has more 'home grown' players in quantity, and is better.

i wonder if there's even a scenario where a baseball team sold its 'home grown' talent to the devil for hired guns to win a superbowl. has it even happened?

world series not superbowl

 

[Bhowie]

There is a difference in having sentimentality for a team/club than having for the rosters or players on the roster. You are falsely lumping these.

 

[BDC2823]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

I don't understand how you are trying to take the sentimentality out of sports, yet continue to support a team?

Why do you support the team?

I mean, did the owner buy your grandpa a kidney when he needed it? Did you win $1,000,000 betting on the Dodgers? There is no point in liking a team other than pure dumb sentimentality.

I stand by my statement that I would rather never watch another Mets game than have them swap rosters with the Yankees and win the WS. I really would see no point.

And of course the players don't give a **** (for the most part). That's a given. I don't have any pretenses there.

I grew up a Dodgers fan and have been since I can remember. Always was one and always will be. Therefore I support the team and not just individual guys on the team. My favorite player right now is Ethier who came from the A's. Baseball has huge turnover and we may have one or two players that were on our roster just 4-5 years ago.

Why are you a Mets fan? Is it just because of Wright and Reyes? If they are gone, are you gone? Then you're really not a Mets fan and are just a fan of some players on the team.

Arsenal fans love Fabregas, but if he jumps ship for Barca next year, Arsenal fans aren't going to jump ship as well. Players come and go, including hometown and homegrown favorites. When Henry left for Barca a couple years ago, Arsenal fans didn't leave Arsenal. He did more for Arsenal than perhaps any player in their history but fans understood why he was no longer on the Gunners. Fabregas has wanted to play for Barca since he was a kid and will probably want to take over the reigns once Xavi is gone. For the most part, Arsenal fans understand that and when he moves on, so will Arsenal and hopefully the next Henry or Fabregas emerges.

Fans like certain players, but love their team. The team always means more than the individual players that happen to be on the team at that moment.

 

[MetroStyles]

Just answer the question, would you swap your favorite team's roster with the Yankees roster (100% swap) one year and still be a big fan?

It is hypothetical, yes. So what?

If you would not, then where do you draw the line.

 

[sunror]

well my favorite team is the yankees but no, i would not do that. nor the 95 bulls/95 knicks. i'd draw the line well before that

 

[Bhowie]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

Just answer the question, would you swap your favorite team's roster with the Yankees roster (100% swap) one year and still be a big fan?

It is hypothetical, yes. So what?

If you would not, then where do you draw the line.

Yes.

 

[Hombre Secreto]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

Just answer the question, would you swap your favorite team's roster with the Yankees roster (100% swap) one year and still be a big fan?
Most die hards couldn't possibly do this because of all the emotion they invested on the team (players).

 

[texas_jack]

Originally Posted by globetrotter

I don't give a **** - I like a good game, at a reasonable price for good seats, with high quality beer and food available in the stands. pretty much everythign else after that I just don't give a ****. oh, I wouldn't mind if I could sit in the first few rows and not be in the sun, too, but that might be too much to ask for.

You must hate sports in America then

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by sunror

well my favorite team is the yankees but no, i would not do that. nor the 95 bulls/95 knicks. i'd draw the line well before that

Right, agreed. As would most fans.

Now, would you swap Cano/Jeter/ARod/Posada/Rivera for Lowell/Ortiz/Varitek/Papelbon/Beckett/Bucholz?

I mean, assuming that was a fair trade. Would you swap cores with your hated enemy...and be happy about it if you won with that core?

I wouldn't. I can't explain why logically, again, because being a fan is marsupialed on any logical level to begin with. But I just wouldn't be cool with it.

 

[sunror]

i wouldn't swap the cores, but again, it'd never come up. and i'm less attached to arod than the others for the 'home grown'

what i would do this offseason is swap jeter out for pujols. i've read jeter is likely demanding in excess of 20 mil annually, and at this age, he won't be close to worth it. i think the yankees will resign him though

one great 'home grown' trade was roberto kelly for paul oneill. kelly is forgotten/insigificant, oneill one of the best yankees in decades

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by sunror

i wouldn't swap the cores, but again, it'd never come up. and i'm less attached to arod than the others for the 'home grown' what i would do this offseason is swap jeter out for pujols. i've read jeter is likely demanding in excess of 20 mil annually, and at this age, he won't be close to worth it. i think the yankees will resign him though one great 'home grown' trade was roberto kelly for paul oneill. kelly is forgotten/insigificant, oneill one of the best yankees in decades
The 1 on 1s are not as offensive as entire core swaps, but I hope you see what I am getting at - which is that it really isn't just the name on the uniform, but that the personalities on the team matter. Replaced in small doses, it is fine, but when core pieces are gutted it makes many fans lose that connection to the team. Jeter for Pujols is a no-brainer...anything that one-sided is hard to say no to.

 

[Texasmade]

Originally Posted by MetroStyles

Just answer the question, would you swap your favorite team's roster with the Yankees roster (100% swap) one year and still be a big fan?

It is hypothetical, yes. So what?

If you would not, then where do you draw the line.

If it meant winning a championship then yes.

 

[MetroStyles]

Originally Posted by Texasmade

If it meant winning a championship then yes.

Lol, you are marsupialed fan.