Is classy wear going out of style in the Western world?

[Sam Hober]

"If my national leader is wearing a suit at an international conference, I would like to see him wearing a tie, which would indicate to me that he is taking the situation, his job, his responsibilities, and the other leaders, seriously."

Mr Pasadena man, Well said!

 

[Reggae Mike]

I don't think it's really been in style since the sixties. For the ones who loves it, probably never. I'm in my forties and never recall the majority dress classy, at least in America.

 

[comrade]

It's never been about the majority. It's been about the various elites and those
who aspire to their status and/or follow their example. So in the 1930s, 40s it
was the Duke of Windsor, Cary Grant, Anthony Eden, Clark Gable, etc.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Is there some sort of glitch on this website where the same tired complaints get trotted back out every 3-4 weeks as a new thread for some reason?

 

[EZB]

A tie and collar that actually fits is a great mitigation strategy against asphyxiation.

Why mitigate when you can solve?

 

[mak1277]

Just because a shirt collar fits the way it’s supposed to doesn’t mean all-day comfort is a given. Well-fitting dress shoes still get uncomfortable toward the end of the day. There are people here who argue that their dress shoes are more comfortable than their New Balances, and that wearing a tie is just comfortable as not wearing one. I don’t buy it for a second.

I don’t disagree with you. But for me, the minor reduction in comfort is not enough to stop wearing ties. I just enjoy it too much

 

[ACLC]

In Japan, everyone still wears suit and tie to the office and the women dress very elegantly too. Good quality dress shoes are still in high demand there too.

 

[stuffedsuperdud]

@JFWR @Blastwice I think if we're at the point where the argument is, "'Classy' clothes feel great as long as you are is willing to invest as much time as I do towards dialing in all the materials and dimensional parameters just right, like on an F1 racecar or a space shuttle, then it'll be so functional and comfortable"....well that probably answers the question as to why regular guys simply opt out of wearing this stuff entirely if they aren't forced to by work requirements or social norms.

Derek wrote a piece a long time ago about how these not-a-clothes-guy guys once upon a time could go to a reputable store and a knowledgeable sales associate and in-house fitter/tailor would get them all set up without any effort of their own. That service is gone now, though that loss is probably not a cause but just another symptom of the greater trajectory.

Not all is lost though. For all my advocating for the devil, I'm more with you guys than against. Aside from wearing more than my fair share of tailoring for anything outside the gym and when I have to do manual labor, (@ValidusLA IIRC we touched on this briefly last year) I've since resumed shooting clays after a long layoff. I used to wear chinos, baggy OCBD, and the nylon vest to blend into the crowd, but I now give zero ***** and wear a tweed shooting vest with matching plus-fours, Viyella tattersall shirt, shooting stockings with garter, and a wool tie. I also have a matching jacket with half-belt, bellows pockets and action shoulders but it's currently too warm for that. I'd like the matching flat cap but my hat size is something like 4XL (very sniper friendly noggin) so that's a no-go.

Yes, I'm purposely cosplaying as a ******* landed gentry Tory-voting probably-inbred upper-class twit....all to go break inanimate objects in the heart of Silicon Valley CA. It's fine. Don't get too excited though; I'm only doing this maybe 20% for tradition / elegance / whatever SF thinks is correct, and maybe 80% to passive aggressively make fun of the true cosplayers, and by that I mean the Gravy SEALs who show up to the range with their tacticool kit and t-shirts that say stupid **** on the front like "Grunt Style, This We'll Defend" or "I Am That Well-Regulated Militia" yea okay buddy. Fortunately they are mostly inside shooting paper targets while the cool kids are outside with the clays.

 

[JFWR]

Why mitigate when you can solve?

To not look like a slob?

When has anyone ever said, "Man, that guy looks so much better WITHOUT a tie!?"

 

[JFWR]

@JFWR @Blastwice I think if we're at the point where the argument is, "'Classy' clothes feel great as long as you are is willing to invest as much time as I do towards dialing in all the materials and dimensional parameters just right, like on an F1 racecar or a space shuttle, then it'll be so functional and comfortable"....well that probably answers the question as to why regular guys simply opt out of wearing this stuff entirely if they aren't forced to by work requirements or social norms.

Derek wrote a piece a long time ago about how these not-a-clothes-guy guys once upon a time could go to a reputable store and a knowledgeable sales associate and in-house fitter/tailor would get them all set up without any effort of their own. That service is gone now, though that loss is probably not a cause but just another symptom of the greater trajectory.

Not all is lost though. For all my advocating for the devil, I'm more with you guys than against. Aside from wearing more than my fair share of tailoring for anything outside the gym and when I have to do manual labor, (@ValidusLA IIRC we touched on this briefly last year) I've since resumed shooting clays after a long layoff. I used to wear chinos, baggy OCBD, and the nylon vest to blend into the crowd, but I now give zero ***** and wear a tweed shooting vest with matching plus-fours, Viyella tattersall shirt, shooting stockings with garter, and a wool tie. I also have a matching jacket with half-belt, bellows pockets and action shoulders but it's currently too warm for that. I'd like the matching flat cap but my hat size is something like 4XL (very sniper friendly noggin) so that's a no-go.

Yes, I'm purposely cosplaying as a ******* landed gentry Tory-voting probably-inbred upper-class twit....all to go break inanimate objects in the heart of Silicon Valley CA. It's fine. Don't get too excited though; I'm only doing this maybe 20% for tradition / elegance / whatever SF thinks is correct, and maybe 80% to passive aggressively make fun of the true cosplayers, and by that I mean the Gravy SEALs who show up to the range with their tacticool kit and t-shirts that say stupid **** on the front like "Grunt Style, This We'll Defend" or "I Am That Well-Regulated Militia" yea okay buddy. Fortunately they are mostly inside shooting paper targets while the cool kids are outside with the clays.

I am actually not suggesting that you need even close to MTM to be comfortable in clothing.

You can buy off the rack shirts, off the rack ties (or thrift store ties), etc, and not feel uncomfortable in them if you buy. The. Right. Size. That's about it. Collar sizes come in 1/2 increments even at JC Penneys or Macy's or Nordstrom or whatever else department store you have.

Buy a shirt that fits. Your collar won't bother you. Tie a tie so it won't be a noose around your neck. Your tie won't bother you.

There isn't much of a problem here.

 

[GaiusM]

In Japan, everyone still wears suit and tie to the office

This is not true for around 6 months out of the year. Suit pants and dress shirt sans tie and jacket are more common than with in the warmer months. "Cool Biz" dominates.

 

[EZB]

To not look like a slob?

When has anyone ever said, "Man, that guy looks so much better WITHOUT a tie!?"

Pretty much the majority say that now. You can even see it in the headshots company leaders take. It’s all without ties now unless you are a government employee thinking back to the 1980s

 

[rjc149]

I don’t disagree with you. But for me, the minor reduction in comfort is not enough to stop wearing ties. I just enjoy it too much

I don't find wearing neckties to be unbearably uncomfortable, but no, it's not as comfortable as a shirt sans tie, which we can agree upon. If no one else in my office is wearing a necktie for daily admin duties, I'm not going to insist on wearing one.

The reason I wear a suit and tie has nothing to do with comfort -- dressing strictly for comfort, I wear sweatpants, t-shirts and sneakers. That doesn't mean that I prefer wearing this outfit over tailoring.

For most men, wearing tailoring fulfills a need or desire beyond strict physical comfort. Above a simple dress code requirement, these desires are different for different men -- the desire to look good and feel confident, an espirit de corps in professional settings, to celebrate the heritage of tailored clothing -- but when this love of tailoring extends into asserting its total supremacy to all other modes of dress in every aspect, including strict comfort, that's where my incredulity starts kicking in.

I don't want to wear sweatpants to work any more than I want to wear a suit to walk my dog on a Saturday afternoon. For business attire, comfort is not the paramount concern. For off-duty hours, appearing professional is not the paramount concern. Yes, the preference for comfort has been bleeding into professional attire for some time now. I think going without a tie is an acceptable compromise and honestly, I think the suit-no-tie ensemble is here to stay. I predict suit-with-sneakers will also rise in prevalence. Makes sense that it addresses the two main discomfort points in professional attire, the neck and feet.

 

[mak1277]

I don't find wearing neckties to be unbearably uncomfortable, but no, it's not as comfortable as a shirt sans tie, which we can agree upon. If no one else in my office is wearing a necktie for daily admin duties, I'm not going to insist on wearing one.

The reason I wear a suit and tie has nothing to do with comfort -- dressing strictly for comfort, I wear sweatpants, t-shirts and sneakers. That doesn't mean that I prefer wearing this outfit over tailoring.

For most men, wearing tailoring fulfills a need or desire beyond strict physical comfort. Above a simple dress code requirement, these desires are different for different men -- the desire to look good and feel confident, an espirit de corps in professional settings, to celebrate the heritage of tailored clothing -- but when this love of tailoring extends into asserting its total supremacy to all other modes of dress in every aspect, including strict comfort, that's where my incredulity starts kicking in.

I don't want to wear sweatpants to work any more than I want to wear a suit to walk my dog on a Saturday afternoon. For business attire, comfort is not the paramount concern. For off-duty hours, appearing professional is not the paramount concern. Yes, the preference for comfort has been bleeding into professional attire for some time now. I think going without a tie is an acceptable compromise and honestly, I think the suit-no-tie ensemble is here to stay. I predict suit-with-sneakers will also rise in prevalence. Makes sense that it addresses the two main discomfort points in professional attire, the neck and feet.

But I’m not talking about “professional attire”. I am talking about choosing to wear tailoring and (yes) ties in my personal leisure time. I don’t even have a job…but I still make an effort to schedule activities where a jacket and tie are not out of place.

Too often on CM I find that people can’t think of suits/ties/tailoring as anything other than what you wear to work. Work is the most boring place to wear tailoring IMO.

 

[rjc149]

Too often on CM I find that people can’t think of suits/ties/tailoring as anything other than what you wear to work. Work is the most boring place to wear tailoring IMO.

Most people prefer not being the only guy in the room who is dressed up. The natural, innate mammalian preference for physical comfort aside, this can also cause social discomfort.

I also enjoy having a variety of outfits for a variety of activities and settings. Tailoring for work and special events. Athleisure for lounging, traveling, errand-running. Jeans for casual socializing. Chinos for evenings out or business casual Friday. Gorpcore for hiking/camping. Wearing worsted wool tailoring for everything is just as boring.