I'm looking at a pair of size 30 waist New Standards in the Buying and selling forum, and the waist is 17 inches (leghtwise, around the back)!! I don't doubt the width, I'm just surprised by it. My 'work pants' (plain 501s) are a size 32, when I bought them they were so tight I could barely button them, now I can fit my palm down the front perpendicular-ways, yet they're only 16.5 inches lenghtwise across the waist!! Are all of you really putting up with this much stretching? All that jean bunching up when you tighten your belts? Am I overstating it? or is it really that drastic? Maybe I'm in the minority, but big pants are cinched in tight by a belt can be really uncomfortable, plus you get really weird bunching, how do so many of you put up with this?