1. I'd like to announce that animated avatars are now available again. You'll have to reload, but they are once more possible.

    We've been doing a ton of work behind the scenes. The site load speed was already under 1/2 of what Huddler's was, on average, and we installed cloudflare, which means that the site should be even faster. A ton more will go on in the weeks and months to come, and some things will be more visibile, and some less.

    Cheers,

    Fok.

    Dismiss Notice

Investment Banking Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Business, Careers & Education' started by jslade, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. Khayembii Communique

    Khayembii Communique Senior member

    Messages:
    2,436
    Likes Received:
    336
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    He said that or offering to work for like nothing just to get some experience on my resume. I didn't want to get an MBA until having a few years under my belt first, though if I can't find something in the next couple months I probably will start looking towards that route. I think MSF would be pretty pointless and I'd have about the same options as I do now. I'm also increasingly considering the CFA.

    I have another call lined up with a PM at a distressed debt hedge fund next week and the guy that's hooking me up with all these contacts is still in the process of recommending me for an analyst program at his (BB) firm.

    Also have to try to get into contact with the MD here that someone was trying to get me in touch with last week. Balls are rolling I guess.
     
  2. pseudonym

    pseudonym Senior member

    Messages:
    1,116
    Likes Received:
    22
    Joined:
    May 26, 2009
    Keep pushing, man. I feel stuck and I'm just an undergrad senior.

    PS - I also am not a fan of the business school route without prior work experience. If anything, do an unpaid internship at a boutique.
     
  3. newinny

    newinny Senior member

    Messages:
    482
    Likes Received:
    15
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2008
    

    At the same time as you are pushing for front office jobs, broaden your search to include:

    - corp dev
    - accounting
    - risk
    - finance departments
    - investment advising
    - structuring
    - research
     
  4. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

    Messages:
    4,741
    Likes Received:
    1,839
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2006
    Location:
    London
    

    The last three are front office jobs.

    That does not make your advice any less valid.
     
  5. gdl203

    gdl203 Affiliate Vendor Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

    Messages:
    36,686
    Likes Received:
    17,020
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2005
    Location:
    New York
    If you want to be un-downsizable and forever in high demand, get into IB compliance. Now that's (with risk) the growth areas in IB...
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  6. gomestar

    gomestar Super Yelper

    Messages:
    19,400
    Likes Received:
    3,865
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    

    yep.
     
  7. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,797
    Likes Received:
    2,028
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    This is totally true. Treat every informational meeting as an interview. Know your stuff and be prepared to answer questions. Always make sure to ask for other contacts before your meeting is over.

    This is how you get the interview that will get you an offer.


    Sounds super-boring though. If you want to go into a less risky profession with less chance of layoffs, go into law. Oh wait.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  8. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,797
    Likes Received:
    2,028
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    If you haven't already, build your own model. Start with a plain, three statement operating model. See if you can get it all to flow and balance. This is harder the first time than you might imagine. No matter what you've read in the Vault guide or wherever, you can't possibly attain as deep an understanding of basic financial accounting as you will by throwing yourself into the weeds. This will matter when you do land an interview--everybody with half a brain and the slightest initiative will have already memorized the Vault guide, but relatively few will be able to demonstrate a legitimate understanding of the concepts.

    If you are feeling ambitious, move on to doing a DCF and LBO. I would not bother trying a merger model. It will likely be wrong and you won't want to get too deep into it during interviews, anyway.


    I think the WSO and M&I technical question guides are awesome. The WSO one is plainly superior to Vault--better questions and better, clearer explanations. M&I is good if you want to go deeper.

    As for books, I highly recommend Accounting for M&A, Equity, and Credit Analysts, by James Morris. It's probably too advanced and granular for your immediate purposes, but it is an excellent reference for when you are building a model and can't figure out how to treat NOLs or OID.

    The Rosenbaum/Pearl book is a good, basic primer on what investment bankers do, but it isn't a very good technical reference.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  9. Khayembii Communique

    Khayembii Communique Senior member

    Messages:
    2,436
    Likes Received:
    336
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    I was planning on getting through these three books some more then actually doing this. Would this be something you would present in an interview or put on your resume ("Independently studied valuation modeling and created samples that can be provided upon request" or something like that)?

    I was also going to go through the BIWS courses but TBH they're pretty expensive and I'm worried if I get through these books I'll already know most of the content.

    Do you know where I can find examples of these online anywhere?

    Seems like a pretty good place to start, though. I got through about 1/5 of it in a single reading so it's obviously basic but it's a good start. I'll definitely check out your recommendation, though. Thanks for the tips!

    What's your experience in this field?
     
  10. suited

    suited Senior member

    Messages:
    6,451
    Likes Received:
    2,726
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2008
    

    Just be careful what you say. Earlier in my career I had someone stop me as soon as I mentioned DCF, had me draw a model on a whiteboard while he berated me with technical questions - some of which I was far too inexperienced to answer. It was probably the single best interview experience I ever received - interviews after that seemed like cake. If you plan on doing this know the model in and out and memorize the common formulas - which is the easy part. I was fine drawing it out and writing out the formulas, but anyone with experience will be able to distinguish between this type of knowledge and real deal knowledge as soon as they dig a bit deeper - so just don't misrepresent yourself and you'll be good.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  11. gettoasty

    gettoasty Senior member

    Messages:
    12,324
    Likes Received:
    6,539
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Location:
    Home
    J/W but are you transitioning from school or from another career? I read your OP and it is from school so you are graduating or have graduated.

    I say network and self-study like crazy in order to land an entry position into one of the specialties you're interested in. MBA I would hold off on unless you're the type thinking you can learn and network among older classmates who mostly have experience under their belt. TBH, I think it will be fairly difficult for your to break through given your description of "mediocre grades and school". So, network a lot beforehand to make up the gap. Take an internship as a last viable option and think of it as building experience and thickening your skin for the real work.

    I ended up in the latter and am currently working under a PWM firm now. Someone mentioned compliance work and I would love to trade places with our compliance and back office. To put things in perspective, I lasted 6 months interning, 3 month then 3 month with a stipend. It was hell in hindsight after the first 3 months.

    FWIW, if you are interested in becoming a CFA I work with one everyday. Prepare for a lot of reading and communication with fund managers, their internals/externals, and essentially bridging a relationship. Beside that you will be analyzing and preparing a lot of reviews utilizing software from 3rd-party websites and Excel. Perhaps other firms have more sophisticated software and connections so YMMV. Of course, you'll need to pass all 3 levels of the CFA first, which will take an additional minimum of 3 years.
     
  12. Khayembii Communique

    Khayembii Communique Senior member

    Messages:
    2,436
    Likes Received:
    336
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    I graduated in 2010.
     
  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,797
    Likes Received:
    2,028
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    No, I would not put that on your resume. However, if you take a training course, you should definitely include it. It will show interest.

    Just realize, as suited mentions, that you will be taken to task during an interview. Be prepared to answer questions about anything you claim you can do. So don't bite off more than you can chew.


    You take the course to prove your interest and initiative, as well as to learn the material. A lot of banks use Wall Street Training (http://www.wallst-training.com/). The Asian instructor has become a well-loved character amongst analysts.

    I don't understand what you mean by examples. Perhaps you can get a preview through Google--but ultimately, you'll need to buy in.


    I'm an M&A banker.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  14. gettoasty

    gettoasty Senior member

    Messages:
    12,324
    Likes Received:
    6,539
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Location:
    Home
    Then you have been studying and learning more about IB during your past-time? Kudos to you

    FWIW, I hear in the long run of things an MBA will definitely help you move more and position yourself than a CFA. I think I remember reading that a MBA will usually be promoted to manager/partner positions over a CFA. Probably common knowledge here but worth repeating if you are still considering that Kellogg's program at this point.
     
  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,797
    Likes Received:
    2,028
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    I would consider the fact that these days it is near impossible to land an associate gig out of business school without previous analyst experience. Maybe that will change in a couple of years when the economy picks up and the investment banking world begins to make sense again, but who can say? As of the moment, I'd be very wary of pursuing an MBA in order to get into banking. This applies even to the top schools. Analyst programs everywhere are shrinking.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by