Investing in Quality vs. Senseless Waste of Money

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by Dan-

It's cheaper to use glass rather than paper.

Why use cups?

 

[NewYorkBuck]

In the end, its a rational decision if you are maximizing your utlility per dollar spent. (And of course, there are hard fast rules and equations for determining such things.) Do I need to wear a suit everyday - yes. Do I need to wear a $4,000 suit everyday though? No, but wearing my Raphael puts me in a mindset and draws comments that my old Brooks Brothers never did.

I often tried to find a way to justify spending so much on a single suit. I thought, even if I wear it 100 times, that is still over $40 per wearing. Surely no garment is worth dropping 40 bones each time you put it on. But then I realized, wearing it is not the only time I derive utility from it. As irrational as it sounds, there is something intrinsically rewarding about me about simply owning a piece of craftmanship like that. For whatever reason, just its simple existence in my closet, knowing its there, seeing it everyday when I get dressed. That in itself is part of the overall utility. Taken to its extreme, how often does a owner of a Picasso "use" that Picasso? Surely the reward is just in its ownership. I feel the same way about my finest pieces of clothing.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by masqueofhastur

Depends on the sport. In sports betting you just have to know what you're doing better than the other people you're playing against. The bookies set the lines, and if you can predict line movement you're doing quite well. I just bet on MMA and do well, around 20% profit each event. That's more than most people make off real estate and I can work with much smaller volumes of money. I compete in MMA as well though, so I have an understanding of it that 99% of bettors don't.
Pardon my ignorance, but MMA?

 

[masqueofhastur]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

Pardon my ignorance, but MMA?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_martial_arts

That gives a decent overview. There are some innacuracies in there, but in general it's right, and I'm too lazy to fix it when someone will probably just change it back.

 

[scottSF]

Originally Posted by aportnoy

#1) Just because you fantasize that you've made all the right sartorial decisions and that you somehow give off some sense of power or authority as a result is just pathetic. You're trying to make yourself feel important and justify your own decisions, it's laughable.

#2) Different strokes...people value different things and therefore spend their disposable income accordingly. Any effort to rationalize your choices over someone else's is sad and tells way more about you then your choice of tailor ever could.

#3) Buy what you can afford and brings you pelasure, the rest of this is noise.

Mr. Portnoy's third point captures in a nutshell my rational on how I spend my disposable income. It makes no difference how much something used to cost or what it costs today.

When considering a purchase I would simply ask myself, "What else can I do with the dollars that would bring me more satisfacation than the item or service I am considering?"

If the answer is something else, then I would pass on the purchase. If not then I would buy the item or service under consideration.

 

[briancl]

Originally Posted by masqueofhastur

Depends on the sport. In sports betting you just have to know what you're doing better than the other people you're playing against. The bookies set the lines, and if you can predict line movement you're doing quite well. I just bet on MMA and do well, around 20% profit each event. That's more than most people make off real estate and I can work with much smaller volumes of money. I compete in MMA as well though, so I have an understanding of it that 99% of bettors don't.

This concept applies to investing in the stock market. If you research and know significantly more about an industry, product, company, etc. than the average investor, you have an advantage. If you always do this kind of research and always have this advantage, you stand to make more money in the long term.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by NewYorkBuck

I often tried to find a way to justify spending so much on a single suit. I thought, even if I wear it 100 times, that is still over $40 per wearing. Surely no garment is worth dropping 40 bones each time you put it on. But then I realized, wearing it is not the only time I derive utility from it. As irrational as it sounds, there is something intrinsically rewarding about me about simply owning a piece of craftmanship like that. For whatever reason, just its simple existence in my closet, knowing its there, seeing it everyday when I get dressed. That in itself is part of the overall utility. Taken to its extreme, how often does a owner of a Picasso "use" that Picasso? Surely the reward is just in its ownership. I feel the same way about my finest pieces of clothing.

I dont think that's irrational in the least, I rather think it's well put.

There are a lot of secondary characteristics that get reinforced with owning nice clothing, personal hygiene, care and upkeep, attentions to posture and mannerisms. If a suit makes you live better and therefore longer, are you still spending $40 per wearing or are you spending it on wellness?

What about the way the world sees you and treats you? They say people who have a feeling of success or authority tend to live longer and happier lives.

There are people who but impressionist, post impressionis and abstract art for vast fortunes who never enjoy the purchase but do it merely for status. Thus, if you enjoy wearing your clothing, there's that much more of a positive difference.

 

[epa]

Originally Posted by jmonroestyle

It has always been common wisdom that the most value in almost any durable goods purchase, no matter what it is, is in the middle part of the spectrum.
I have seen a lot of stuff written on this forum that suggests that expensive quality clothing is almost always more durable than cheap clothing. I am not convinced about that, at least when it comes to textiles. Expensive, fine 100% wool cloth jackets and trousers are often less resistent than cloth containing stuff like polyester, I think. When I started to buy suits, I (in my pre-SF ignorance) bought some that contained a lot of polyester and I can assure that they were durable... And some of these very expensive wool cloths are so fine that if you stain them, you cannot get them clean because they will not survive the necessary cleaning process! I have heard that this is true for some high-end Zegna cloths, for example, of this very fine wool (on the upper-end side of 15 mil mil 15).
Also, I nowadays only buy 100% cotton (or cotton&linen) shirts, but I must admit that the cotton&polyester shirts that I sometimes bought years ago (pre-SF, or course) (I basically bougth them because they were easier to iron) had a much better durability! Actually, I still have two of them and as they look OK I do not want to throw them away, so I use them a lot hoping for them to get worn out - but they refuse to!
Today I am actually wearing one of them, and it still looks like new! The 100% cotton ones tend to get rapidly worn out at the cuffs (especially in the case of French cuffs), and at the collar. Now, of course, they are much more pleasant to wear, though!
Well, I think that "quality" is a complex issue and not equivalent to "durability". In any case, I guess the important issue is to spend your money in a way that you feel good about. Of course, we should all give a bit more to charity, but apart from that, I am not sure that you can say that there are objectivley good ways or bad ways of spending money. Once you have covered your basic needs, the rest is luxuary and the question is basically about on what kind of luxuary items you prefer to spend your money: wine, food, traveling, clothing, cars, art,...

 

[LA Guy]

Originally Posted by Dragon

Never thought of clothing as an investment or a waste of money.

Quoted for truth.

 

[vanity]

I think designer clothing is hobby, like drugs....which can be seen as a parallel "extremely pointless expenditure"

When I did drugs, it was easy to justify a few hundred dollars per week on what I liked. They were my hobby and I budgeted accordingly for them.

Since I've quit those, I like to shop. If I love a piece of clothing I can easily justify that purchase. But explaning it to others it seems extreme. My mother still considers them both an absolute waste of money. Even with her closet full of designer bags

 

[Nantucket Red]

Originally Posted by Film_Noir_Buff

There are a lot of secondary characteristics that get reinforced with owning nice clothing, personal hygiene, care and upkeep, attentions to posture and mannerisms. If a suit makes you live better and therefore longer, are you still spending $40 per wearing or are you spending it on wellness?

What about the way the world sees you and treats you? They say people who have a feeling of success or authority tend to live longer and happier lives.

Succinct as always, Buff.

Recently, I've been going out with one of the most beautiful and intelligent women I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, and when she compliments me on how I'm dressed, that alone is sufficient gratification to justify the time, energy and expense I've put into my sartorial elements. To the extent I spend time with her and women like her, I live a fuller, happier and longer life.

Only later do I realize that the very spirit of sprezzatura has deigned to descend and kiss me on the brow.

 

[LARon]

Originally Posted by Nantucket Red

Recently, I've been going out with one of the most beautiful and intelligent women I've ever had the pleasure of meeting, and when she compliments me on how I'm dressed, that alone is sufficient gratification to justify the time, energy and expense I've put into my sartorial elements. To the extent I spend time with her and women like her, I live a fuller, happier and longer life.

Priceless.

 

[LARon]

I'd like to associate myself with these comments.

 

[Artisan Fan]

I have seen a lot of stuff written on this forum that suggests that expensive quality clothing is almost always more durable than cheap clothing. I am not convinced about that, at least when it comes to textiles. Expensive, fine 100% wool cloth jackets and trousers are often less resistent than cloth containing stuff like polyester, I think.

I find fine wools up to Super 150s do travel well and are easier to maintain. They conform to one's personal body shape over time and tend to breathe better.

It's tough to have a good comparison since many higher end fabrics also receive better construction in producing the final item. Most polyster content items I have tried do not look good are hold up well over time.

Like Ron says, I also get satisfaction in knowing that I may be doing a small part to preserve some artisanship. I'd hate to be limited to off the rack clothes that don't fit well and are not as well made.

 

[Film Noir Buff]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

It's tough to have a good comparison since many higher end fabrics also receive better construction in producing the final item. Most polyster content items I have tried do not look good are hold up well over time.

Give 10 chefs the same recipe and a slice off the same cut of meat and you'll get 10 different dishes.

It's all part of the same slippery slope, at what point does it all matter, any of it? And not just clothes.

Part of it is the message you give off to others, part of it is your own enjoyment and part is doubtless what you value. In a society where men are not supposed to care much about clothes, they sure spend a lot. The only thing that goes wrong for men these days is that some invisible power tells them to pretend not to care which perpetuates the ignorance and ultimately the disappointment when they market they buy from sells them marked up things that are not a "manly" quality.

It would be interesting to see what consumption would be like her in the USA if the baseline were that men really should care deeply about clothes.