interesting WSJ article about dressing up(or not)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by TRA8324, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    completely agree. we are all just sharing our worthless opinions.
    Well your quip about women is funny considering that a self-selecting group such as Styleforumners can't agree on anything much less the billions of women. This should let you discover than its not just opinions; you were wrong and I am right.
     


  2. acecow

    acecow Senior member

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    do you actually believe this crap?

    One, most women couldn't care less unless the guy is a super slob. Further, most women have awful taste in mens clothes.

    In addition, I'd argue that most women would think some of the outfits the dandies on here wear are effeminate, gay, or just plain weird, and I'd agree about 50% of the time.

    Finally, most people don't want to dress well, and given that we've already determined that most women aren't rushing to the guy in the oxxford suit and Edward greens, there is no reason for them to be jealous.

    In my years of dressing more nicely than required, I've never found anyone appear to be even the least bit jealous.


    I never said dressing up in expensive clothes helps you get laid. If it were the case, we'd all have harems here. I merely said that being different has always had its complications. I wasn't even talking about dressing up at all. Looking different, talking different, thinking different has gotten countless men into trouble over the ages. Looking more dressed up than 95% of the population can hardly be compared to speaking out against a Stalinist regime and, of course, the consequences are different. But nonetheless, when you dress up you're making a statement that may or may not be interpreted the way you wanted it to be. If you look like a clown - you've failed. If people find your a little more interesting because of your clothes - you haven't. Many people don't want or don't care enough to make this statement, hence, the general lack of dress codes all around. The focus of our society has shifted elsewhere.
     


  3. NickM3

    NickM3 Member

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    For me personally, the biggest error made by men today is not buying clothes that fit, regardless of what they are.

    I definitely think that is a big factor.

    In the US I think this is probably even more difficult given the weight distribution in the general populace. I am somewhat baffled when I try on clothes that fit lengthwise but are wide enough for me to smuggle a small mule.

    Small fit changes can have pretty dramatic effects on overall appearance as this forum knows well.
     


  4. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Senior member

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    I never said dressing up in expensive clothes helps you get laid. If it were the case, we'd all have harems here. I merely said that being different has always had its complications. I wasn't even talking about dressing up at all. Looking different, talking different, thinking different has gotten countless men into trouble over the ages. Looking more dressed up than 95% of the population can hardly be compared to speaking out against a Stalinist regime and, of course, the consequences are different. But nonetheless, when you dress up you're making a statement that may or may not be interpreted the way you wanted it to be. If you look like a clown - you've failed. If people find your a little more interesting because of your clothes - you haven't. Many people don't want or don't care enough to make this statement, hence, the general lack of dress codes all around. The focus of our society has shifted elsewhere.

    i think this a more reasonable statement.

    I definitely think that is a big factor.

    In the US I think this is probably even more difficult given the weight distribution in the general populace. I am somewhat baffled when I try on clothes that fit lengthwise but are wide enough for me to smuggle a small mule.

    Small fit changes can have pretty dramatic effects on overall appearance as this forum knows well.


    agreed...larges fit me height wise but are far too wide. i take them to the tailor which most men dont
     


  5. Reevolving

    Reevolving Senior member

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    Successful people with established careers and big ideas do not waste their time obsessing over tie dimples and sleeve lengths.
    That is the domain for people with legitimate mental disorders, however mild.

    However, when these people all get together in one forum, that behavior starts to seem "normal".

    It's not.

    This is the simple reality.
     


  6. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Senior member

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    Successful people with established careers and big ideas do not waste their time obsessing over tie dimples and sleeve lengths. That is the domain for people with legitimate mental disorders, however mild. However, when these people all get together in one forum, that behavior starts to seem "normal". It's not. This is the simple reality.
    +a number too big to comprehend.
     


  7. acecow

    acecow Senior member

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    Successful people with established careers and big ideas do not waste their time obsessing over tie dimples and sleeve lengths.
    That is the domain for people with legitimate mental disorders, however mild.

    However, when these people all get together in one forum, that behavior starts to seem "normal".

    It's not.

    This is the simple reality.


    Are you saying successful people don't have hobbies? Or are you saying that clothing isn't an acceptable one?
     


  8. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Senior member

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    Are you saying successful people don't have hobbies? Or are you saying that clothing isn't an acceptable one?

    I'm not sure he's saying either.

    I think he's saying that, on average, people who really excel in their field dress well enough for it to be a non-issue, but don't take it much farther than that because the marginal benefit to their success is very minimal.
     


  9. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    I'm not sure he's saying either.

    I think he's saying that, on average, people who really excel in their field dress well enough for it to be a non-issue, but don't take it much farther than that because the marginal benefit to their success is very minimal.


    Depends on the field and what role dressing plays in the culture of the person (habitus an all..), also depends on what "dressing well" means, if anything. You guys should stop making baseless affirmations, you can't play at being a social scientist any more than you can play at being a physician.
     


  10. Reevolving

    Reevolving Senior member

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    I suspect that if the majority of gentlemen start dressing like MC'ers, I am and many on here would dress in jeans and t-shirts to stand out.
    Just sayin'


    +1
     


  11. Reevolving

    Reevolving Senior member

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    Are you saying successful people don't have hobbies? Or are you saying that clothing isn't an acceptable one?
    I am saying that most people have other priorities, particularly successful ones. For you to lament the lack of suits and jackets as some sort of flaw is as laughable .... like griping that men no longer go bowling, or build with model train sets in the basement. People dressed "well" in the past, b/c they had no other choice. There wasn't some romantic genteel way of life bullshit. Bums wore suits ... b/c T-shirts and sneakers had not yet been invented. This is a fun, self-indulgent, frivolous, arcane, obsessive hobby, but nothing more. It reduces your net worth (Yes, but think of all the promotions you'll get b/c of those black captoes!) Is it a way of life for most people? No. An identity? No. Does it help to wear a nice suit to an interview or close a sale? Sure. It doesn't make you some sort of "gentleman", doesn't raise your IQ, and certainly doesn't make you better than some guy wearing pleated khakis and a polo shirt. It just means you have free time, went to the internet, read a lot, and started dressing like a bunch of other enthusiasts who post pictures of their clothing collections. (At least, that's my story)
     


  12. S. Magnozzi

    S. Magnozzi Senior member

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    I suspect that if the majority of gentlemen start dressing like MC'ers, I am and many on here would dress in jeans and t-shirts to stand out.

    Just sayin'


    [​IMG]
     


  13. Digmenow

    Digmenow Senior member

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    Unemployment/bread lines then... [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] ...and now. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] When the company you work for provides your clothing or tells you what you must wear, that's what you know and tend to follow in your personal life. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/508...6BF04B24B4128C Well...mostly. Hmm...last pic no worky.
     


  14. ShaneB

    ShaneB Senior member

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    I read this article over the weekend. To me, the problem is not the diminishing of dress codes (directly speaking, I couldn't care less), but the apparent diminishing of the values that led people to dress well in the first place. I say 'apparent' because the cynical part of me (the biggest part) believes fundamentally it's always been the same: 99% of people don't have the taste, character, or motivation to be stylish. We just think it was different way back when because of black and white photography and the conflation of enforced formality with genuine style.

    Spot on. Without wanting to sound all poncy and 'intellectual' there's a fair bit of literature written by conservatives that touch upon what you're saying here. The well dressed man is the bourgeois man: capitalistic, prudent, naturally conservative, sombre and practical; come the 1960's and what was essentially a counter-culture (socialism and all its guises in the form of relentless attacks on convention, established institutions and sentiments) found popular currency. Various left wing ideologues held their raison d'etre to be nothing more than the undermining of traditional institutions for the betterment of their conception of how society should be, so gone were the neck ties - a symbol of bondage - and shirts in favour of nontraditional, 'casual' attire that represented the complete subversion of bourgeois mores.

    You can pick up any book written any members of the Frankfurt School and they'll say as much.
     


  15. ShaneB

    ShaneB Senior member

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    I am saying that most people have other priorities, particularly successful ones.
    For you to lament the lack of suits and jackets as some sort of flaw is as laughable
    .... like griping that men no longer go bowling, or build with model train sets in the basement.

    People dressed "well" in the past, b/c they had no other choice.
    There wasn't some romantic genteel way of life bullshit.
    Bums wore suits ... b/c T-shirts and sneakers had not yet been invented.

    This is a fun, self-indulgent, frivolous, arcane, obsessive hobby, but nothing more.
    It reduces your net worth (Yes, but think of all the promotions you'll get b/c of those black captoes!)
    Is it a way of life for most people? No. An identity? No.
    Does it help to wear a nice suit to an interview or close a sale? Sure.
    It doesn't make you some sort of "gentleman", doesn't raise your IQ, and certainly doesn't make you better than some guy wearing pleated khakis and a polo shirt.

    It just means you have free time, went to the internet, read a lot, and started dressing like a bunch of other enthusiasts who post pictures of their clothing collections. (At least, that's my story)


    People dressed in a far more refined style in the past because it was CONVENTION, not because 'trainers' had yet to be 'invented' (what rubbish!). It's social convention or lack of that is the ever residing factor.

    Clothing isn't just a pile of randomly constructed fabrics: it's humanised and becomes an extension of the individual; the 19th century merchant who donned his top hat and jacket did - contrary to what you wrote - think about what he was wearing, not only because it was expected of him to keep appearances for a man of his class, but because pride in how one dressed was a direct reflection of his character. It's the same reason why the workers imitated their social betters. The story of the 20th century (or the later part of the 20th century) is the story of how those defining characteristics and conventions were systematically undermined.
     


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