interesting WSJ article about dressing up(or not)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by TRA8324, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. pablo

    pablo Active Member

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    I tried articulating some of this to some friends recently. I came off as elitist and nostalgic and sympathetic for Rockefeller types[​IMG]

    In college I had a class where an older gentlemen was taking a course for fun along with us kids. I did not know he was a wealthy alumni until it came out one day during discussion well into the semester.

    This guy dressed in cargo pants and t-shirts (surfer brands, Fitch etc) every day and always had earbuds hanging on his neck. I thought: there is no distinction, nothing that us college kids can aspire to in the most unaffected, basic sense of the word, once we presumably grew up and graduated if this guy looked like that at his age as a wealthy man.


    Here you find one reason for the dressing down phenomena: some see dressing sharply as establishment or elitist and it consequently elicits distrust. It is tied to the inverse snob.
     


  2. Bounder

    Bounder Senior member

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    Here you find one reason for the dressing down phenomena: some see dressing sharply as establishment or elitist and it consequently elicits distrust. It is tied to the inverse snob.
    I think it is more fundamental than that. I blame the self-esteem movement which got going in the 70s. It used to be that most people made an effort because they didn't want to be mistaken for ignorant peasants. Now most people actually are ignorant peasant but they celebrate that fact rather than trying to cover it up.
     


  3. acecow

    acecow Senior member

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    Palmer - my point is that today in many even very large communities, even if you WANT to dress well, you have to expend exponentially more energy to find even a suit that remotely fits. If you at least had the will 50 years ago it was a much easier process.

    I couldn't agree more! Nowadays, wearing good-looking shoes and a suit and shirt that fit takes a lot of time, money and desire, since those types of clothes aren't readily available. Most people consider time spent on clothes as time wasted; they frown upon a perfectly dressed gentleman spending countless hours shopping off- or online and sweating over pant break at his tailor. Therefore, people really stand out from the crowd (in a good or sometimes bad way) and attract attention when they are neatly dressed. The general public usually dislikes such individuals, it's human nature.
     


  4. austerlitz

    austerlitz Senior member

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    could you expound on this?

    I couldn't agree more! Nowadays, wearing good-looking shoes and a suit and shirt that fit takes a lot of time, money and desire, since those types of clothes aren't readily available. Most people consider time spent on clothes as time wasted; they frown upon a perfectly dressed gentleman spending countless hours shopping off- or online and sweating over pant break at his tailor. Therefore, people really stand out from the crowd (in a good or sometimes bad way) and attract attention when they are neatly dressed. The general public usually dislikes such individuals, it's human nature.
     


  5. acecow

    acecow Senior member

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    Not really, I don't feel like writing a whole article about it. It's something that I've learned throughout my life and also from reading books by philosophers and authors I respect. I'm not stating this as an absolute fact, but just as my own opinion. Look at celebrities whom we love to hate. And aren't we oh so delighted to hear about Brad and Angelina arguing? Well, I'm not, but I assume most people are, because the People (sp?) Magazine is sold everywhere.

    When you stand out, it's a certain statement. Usually, it means that I'm better than you, I'm not afraid of it, come females and have my babies!! This creates jealousy, competition and all the hard feelings associated with them. That's what I meant by human nature.

    could you expound on this?
     


  6. spitfirees20

    spitfirees20 Senior member

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    could you expound on this?

    Haters gonna' hate.
     


  7. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    I think it is more fundamental than that. I blame the self-esteem movement which got going in the 70s. It used to be that most people made an effort because they didn't want to be mistaken for ignorant peasants. Now most people actually are ignorant peasant but they celebrate that fact rather than trying to cover it up.

    +1

    I couldn't agree more! Nowadays, wearing good-looking shoes and a suit and shirt that fit takes a lot of time, money and desire, since those types of clothes aren't readily available. Most people consider time spent on clothes as time wasted; they frown upon a perfectly dressed gentleman spending countless hours shopping off- or online and sweating over pant break at his tailor. Therefore, people really stand out from the crowd (in a good or sometimes bad way) and attract attention when they are neatly dressed. The general public usually dislikes such individuals, it's human nature.

    +1
     


  8. austerlitz

    austerlitz Senior member

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    [​IMG]

    Not really, I don't feel like writing a whole article about it. It's something that I've learned throughout my life and also from reading books by philosophers and authors I respect. I'm not stating this as an absolute fact, but just as my own opinion. Look at celebrities whom we love to hate. And aren't we oh so delighted to hear about Brad and Angelina arguing? Well, I'm not, but I assume most people are, because the People (sp?) Magazine is sold everywhere.

    When you stand out, it's a certain statement. Usually, it means that I'm better than you, I'm not afraid of it, come females and have my babies!! This creates jealousy, competition and all the hard feelings associated with them. That's what I meant by human nature.
     


  9. entrero

    entrero Senior member

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    When you stand out, it's a certain statement. Usually, it means that I'm better than you, I'm not afraid of it, come females and have my babies!! This creates jealousy, competition and all the hard feelings associated with them. That's what I meant by human nature.

    On the other side of the coin when you look at the Sartorialist blog, another statement is made...The fact they enjoy life. That's what only matters for me.
     


  10. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Senior member

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    99% of people don't have the taste, character, or motivation to be stylish.

    and whose to say they aren't stylish. If they want to wear jeans and a t-shirt, they may think they are stylish, and think you look like a buffoon in your suit. You, nor anyone else, is the arbitrator of what style is. Its simply your opinion.

    The strange thing is, that a grownup in flip flops, cargo shorts, and a t shirt looks like crap. That's an objective factual truth, not a matter of opinion. If you're hanging out at home on the weekend, or wandering around Walmart or something, then fine, whatever. But for any kind of social occasion, why would people want to look like crap? It's not that hard to look at least okay - just a few things ordered from LE, J Crew, etc etc can set a person up to look as if he has some respect for himself and the people around him.bb

    Oh cut the bullshit. Of course its an opinion, and not an "objective factual truth". The idea that you think your opinions are fact makes me think you are quite sad.

    On top of that, what if its a barbeque in your friends backyard. What are you gonna wear? khakis and a sport coat?

    None of you determine what style is an isn't, its simply your opinion of what looks good.

    For me personally, the biggest error made by men today is not buying clothes that fit, regardless of what they are.
     


  11. Fuuma

    Fuuma Franchouillard Modasse

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    I read this article over the weekend. To me, the problem is not the diminishing of dress codes (directly speaking, I couldn't care less), but the apparent diminishing of the values that led people to dress well in the first place. I say 'apparent' because the cynical part of me (the biggest part) believes fundamentally it's always been the same: 99% of people don't have the taste, character, or motivation to be stylish. We just think it was different way back when because of black and white photography and the conflation of enforced formality with genuine style.

    Contemporary stylish people are mostly found among the casually dressed....yeah slobs too. Dressing up is merely on its way to irrelevance, at least as something you're required to wear.
     


  12. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Senior member

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    Not really, I don't feel like writing a whole article about it. It's something that I've learned throughout my life and also from reading books by philosophers and authors I respect. I'm not stating this as an absolute fact, but just as my own opinion. Look at celebrities whom we love to hate. And aren't we oh so delighted to hear about Brad and Angelina arguing? Well, I'm not, but I assume most people are, because the People (sp?) Magazine is sold everywhere. When you stand out, it's a certain statement. Usually, it means that I'm better than you, I'm not afraid of it, come females and have my babies!! This creates jealousy, competition and all the hard feelings associated with them. That's what I meant by human nature.
    do you actually believe this crap? One, most women couldn't care less unless the guy is a super slob. Further, most women have awful taste in mens clothes. In addition, I'd argue that most women would think some of the outfits the dandies on here wear are effeminate, gay, or just plain weird, and I'd agree about 50% of the time. Finally, most people don't want to dress well, and given that we've already determined that most women aren't rushing to the guy in the oxxford suit and Edward greens, there is no reason for them to be jealous. In my years of dressing more nicely than required, I've never found anyone appear to be even the least bit jealous.
     


  13. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    Thanks for your opinions, Quadcammer. Just remember, they're not fact either, or I should say it's fact that's applicable to you in your life experiences, as others opinions here are applicable to them in their experiences. Both are as valid (or invalid, if you wish) as each other.
     


  14. Quadcammer

    Quadcammer Senior member

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    Thanks for your opinions, Quadcammer. Just remember, they're not fact either, or I should say it's fact that's applicable to you in your life experiences, as others opinions here are applicable to them in their experiences. Both are as valid (or invalid, if you wish) as each other.

    completely agree.

    we are all just sharing our worthless opinions.
     


  15. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    Or worthy, depending on your point of view [​IMG]
     


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