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interesting WSJ article about dressing up(or not)

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by TRA8324, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. TRA8324

    TRA8324 Senior member

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  2. Archivist

    Archivist Senior member

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    Inevitable.
    Regrettable.

    For over 200 years clothing has made an inexorable march to towards the more casual and sportswear (and to a lesser extent military wear). By the early 20th Century, this produced some of the most elegant clothing ever worn. Sadly, that side of it didn't last.

    People who enjoy clothes will continue to dress up. As the overt rules and social conventions that require being properly dressed are relaxed and fade, dressing up will evolve into costume, and then fade away.
     
  3. smthorpe

    smthorpe Member

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    Sad and unfortunate.

    I am young (pushing 30) and I thought my friends would stop dressing like they were in high school and college soon after graduation.

    How wrong I was.

    I went to a close friends wedding shower on Saturday, and I cant tell you how many pairs of cargo shorts, tshirts, and flip flops I saw.

    I would much rather dress well than look like I'm hungover.
     
  4. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I read this article over the weekend. To me, the problem is not the diminishing of dress codes (directly speaking, I couldn't care less), but the apparent diminishing of the values that led people to dress well in the first place. I say 'apparent' because the cynical part of me (the biggest part) believes fundamentally it's always been the same: 99% of people don't have the taste, character, or motivation to be stylish. We just think it was different way back when because of black and white photography and the conflation of enforced formality with genuine style.
     
  5. acridsheep

    acridsheep Senior member

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    I read this article over the weekend. To me, the problem is not the diminishing of dress codes (directly speaking, I couldn't care less), but the apparent diminishing of the values that led people to dress well in the first place. I say 'apparent' because the cynical part of me (the biggest part) believes fundamentally it's always been the same: 99% of people don't have the taste, character, or motivation to be stylish. We just think it was different way back when because of black and white photography and the conflation of enforced formality with genuine style.

    I love this post. Seriously.
     
  6. mikeynyc

    mikeynyc Well-Known Member

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    Yesterday I saw an older gent in line at the supermarket.
    He was wearing a nice fedora with a feather in it, a nice top coat and as soon as I thought to myself, that's nice to see...I looked down and noticed he had timberland boots on with adidas wind pants.
     
  7. ter1413

    ter1413 Senior member

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    Will read later...
     
  8. MrGoodBytes

    MrGoodBytes Senior member

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    I read this article over the weekend. To me, the problem is not the diminishing of dress codes (directly speaking, I couldn't care less), but the apparent diminishing of the values that led people to dress well in the first place. I say 'apparent' because the cynical part of me (the biggest part) believes fundamentally it's always been the same: 99% of people don't have the taste, character, or motivation to be stylish. We just think it was different way back when because of black and white photography and the conflation of enforced formality with genuine style.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Cary Grant

    Cary Grant Senior member

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    I read this article over the weekend. To me, the problem is not the diminishing of dress codes (directly speaking, I couldn't care less), but the apparent diminishing of the values that led people to dress well in the first place. I say 'apparent' because the cynical part of me (the biggest part) believes fundamentally it's always been the same: 99% of people don't have the taste, character, or motivation to be stylish. We just think it was different way back when because of black and white photography and the conflation of enforced formality with genuine style.

    There's truth in this. But it has also become infintely more difficult for the average Joe to dress well. The entire shopping process used to be much more curated, with numerous speciality stores populated with sales people who helped dumb men make the right decisions. Even department stores were centers with helpful people and racks of nice clothing to choose from.

    Today- I just walked through one of the Macy's and they've all but eliminated the suits and sportscoats "departments" and the sales people don't know rule one about fitting any article of clothing properly, let alone a tailored jacket.

    There is a short city street a few blocks from my office. in 1940 it had about 12 men's clothing stores, all with tailors. Now there is one and, of course, with no bespoke. I live in a metro with more than 3,000,000 people and searching out ANY decent item of off-the rack clothing is, at best, a laborious chore well beyond the interest or ability of the average guy. Pushing the variety and quality of clothing people at SF seek off mostly onto the web (especially outside of New York City) means that even more that dressing well, in the coat and tie sense, is mostly for the hobbyist and hyper interested. They do not number enough to stem the tides.
     
  10. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    There's truth in this. But it has also become infintely more difficult for the average Joe to dress well. The entire shopping process used to be much more curated, with numerous speciality stores populated with sales people who helped dumb men make the right decisions. Even department stores were centers with helpful people and racks of nice clothing to choose from.

    Today- I just walked through one of the Macy's and they've all but eliminated the suits and sportscoats "departments" and the sales people don't know rule one about fitting any article of clothing properly, let alone a tailored jacket.

    There is a short city street a few blocks from my office. in 1940 it had about 12 men's clothing stores, all with tailors. Now there is one and, of course, with no bespoke. I live in a metro with more than 3,000,000 people and searching out ANY decent item of off-the rack clothing is, at best, a laborious chore well beyond the interest or ability of the average guy. Pushing the variety and quality of clothing people at SF seek off mostly onto the web (especially outside of New York City) means that even more that dressing well, in the coat and tie sense, is mostly for the hobbyist and hyper interested. They do not number enough to stem the tides.


    I'm sad to be too young to experience the way things were as you describe. It certainly does sound more gentile. These days, the internet is the only place one can learn about these things. I can link everything I know about men's clothing to Styleforum, AskAndy, or the London Lounge. The trouble is that hobbyism is no better a driver of style than dress codes. Too much of what happens here is pastiche and cartoon. Oh well.
     
  11. Storm33

    Storm33 Senior member

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    I read that article this weekend as well. I found it equally sad that no mention was made of StyleForum... [​IMG]
     
  12. ChiliPalmer

    ChiliPalmer Senior member

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    There's truth in this. But it has also become infintely more difficult for the average Joe to dress well. The entire shopping process used to be much more curated, with numerous speciality stores populated with sales people who helped dumb men make the right decisions. Even department stores were centers with helpful people and racks of nice clothing to choose from. Today- I just walked through one of the Macy's and they've all but eliminated the suits and sportscoats "departments" and the sales people don't know rule one about fitting any article of clothing properly, let alone a tailored jacket. There is a short city street a few blocks from my office. in 1940 it had about 12 men's clothing stores, all with tailors. Now there is one and, of course, with no bespoke. I live in a metro with more than 3,000,000 people and searching out ANY decent item of off-the rack clothing is, at best, a laborious chore well beyond the interest or ability of the average guy. Pushing the variety and quality of clothing people at SF seek off mostly onto the web (especially outside of New York City) means that even more that dressing well, in the coat and tie sense, is mostly for the hobbyist and hyper interested. They do not number enough to stem the tides.
    I don't think you can draw the conclusion that if the streets and avenues were replete with haberdasheries, men would dress better. Department stores and their ilk don't set trends. They respond to them. Fifty years ago, retailers didn't pursue the market segmentation strategies they do today. Suits, no matter where they were purchased, were generally of a quality that today we [SF] would consider high. Today, a man has far more things competing for his money. Cars, electronic gadgets, travel, college education funds, etc, all compete for the discretionary dollar. Rare is the man who has it all. Most of us have to compromise. You can't blame retailers and clothiers for trying to capitalize on that.
     
  13. howbah

    howbah Senior member

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    The strange thing is, that a grownup in flip flops, cargo shorts, and a t shirt looks like crap. That's an objective factual truth, not a matter of opinion. If you're hanging out at home on the weekend, or wandering around Walmart or something, then fine, whatever. But for any kind of social occasion, why would people want to look like crap? It's not that hard to look at least okay - just a few things ordered from LE, J Crew, etc etc can set a person up to look as if he has some respect for himself and the people around him.
     
  14. smthorpe

    smthorpe Member

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    The strange thing is, that a grownup in flip flops, cargo shorts, and a t shirt looks like crap. That's an objective factual truth, not a matter of opinion. If you're hanging out at home on the weekend, or wandering around Walmart or something, then fine, whatever. But for any kind of social occasion, why would people want to look like crap? It's not that hard to look at least okay - just a few things ordered from LE, J Crew, etc etc can set a person up to look as if he has some respect for himself and the people around him.

    100% agree. The funny part is, even in slacks and a sport coat, no tie, I received ample comments about how nice I looked!

    I am wondering if there is some stigma about shopping that gets men to stick to comfort rather than style.
     
  15. cptjeff

    cptjeff Senior member

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    I am wondering if there is some stigma about shopping that gets men to stick to comfort rather than style.
    This is a binary that really pisses me off. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive, shitloads of layers on 100 degree days notwithstanding.
     
  16. TheWraith

    TheWraith Senior member

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    There is much truth in what foo, Cary Grant and ChiliPalmer have to say in this thread.

    Like most others here, I'm saddened by the degradation in style and diminishing values we set for ourselves in dressing well. It's due to numerous reasons, of course, but it's sad nonetheless.
     
  17. Superfluous

    Superfluous Senior member

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    Yeah, it's pretty sad in general. If I'm wearing any sort of sport coat or suit, people ask me why I'm dressed up. I go to a nice dinner with a friend while my girlfriend is with her mom for the night and the hostess asks us if we're on a date... I can't dress nicely without being gay? [​IMG] What's with people?
     
  18. bigchris1313

    bigchris1313 Senior member

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    While not altogether inaccurate, this made me chuckle. The Edison has--or perhaps had--quite the reputation for having a stringent dress code, but its rigidity appears to have dwindled as of recent. The first and last time I went about 9 months ago, the bouncers made a big deal about the dress code at the door--and then promptly let in gentlemen wearing graphic T-shirts, provided that they "kept their hoodies on."
     
  19. bringusingoodale

    bringusingoodale Senior member

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    I suspect that if the majority of gentlemen start dressing like MC'ers, I am and many on here would dress in jeans and t-shirts to stand out.

    Just sayin'
     
  20. GoldenTribe

    GoldenTribe Senior member

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    I'm sad to be too young to experience the way things were as you describe. It certainly does sound more gentile. These days, the internet is the only place one can learn about these things. I can link everything I know about men's clothing to Styleforum, AskAndy, or the London Lounge. The trouble is that hobbyism is no better a driver of style than dress codes. Too much of what happens here is pastiche and cartoon. Oh well.

    I believe you meant "genteel" (as gentiles are to Jews what infidels are to Muslims).
     

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