Interesting Etsy Blog Post: "As Prices Fell, Our Closets Grew"

[Samovar McGee]

Though this is about womenswear, I think it could easily be applied to men's clothing and shoes. It is true that, due to present day manufacturing processes, we are able to enjoy a vastly different range of quantity and quality than we used to be able to. The post discusses the general shift from artisanal craft to disposable commodity.

What do you guys think?

 

[RSS]

Originally Posted by Samovar McGee

It is true that, due to present day manufacturing processes, we are able to enjoy a vastly different range of quantity and quality than we used to be able to.

If you are middle income, yes.
If you are upper income and taste, no.

 

[voxsartoria]

..

 

[RSS]

Must I explain? BTW I'm addressing the second sentence of the OP ... not the article per se.

For thoes able to afford the finest items, there is much less available. For those able to afford clothing of average quality, there is so much more of it available at even more affordable prices.

As a result of the rise of mass produced clothing ... we now have much less available at the top end of the spectrum. In short, we have a perpetually decreasing pool of goods that qualify as the very best. Yes, there are still good tailors to be found on Savile Row and in Naples, but their numbers are quite limited. Many of the finest names in clothing and accessory goods now produce items that are mediocre at best ... primarily because they have given in to mass production and quantity.

Yes, we do have a greater quantity available than ever before ... but items that qualify as being the best quality are scarce.
If the best is what one seeks ... things don't look good.

Okay I'm done editing ... I think ... well ...

 

[eddievddr10]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

- B
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[GoldenTribe]

Originally Posted by eddievddr10

.......

 

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by RSS

If you are upper income and taste, no.

Nonsense.

 

[bringusingoodale]

I have no objection toward seeing more women dress in these cheap dresses.

 

[RSS]

Originally Posted by Dewey

Nonsense.
Not at all, otherwise I'd not have said it.

So when it comes to items of the finest quality, you believe that there is more available today than there was in times past?

Dewey I don't often disagree with you, but I do here.

 

[JohnnyCrockett]

Originally Posted by RSS

Must I explain? BTW I'm addressing the second sentence of the OP ... not the article per se.

For thoes able to afford the finest items, there is much less available. For those able to afford clothing of average quality, there is so much more of it available at even more affordable prices.

As a result of the rise of mass produced clothing ... we now have much less available at the top end of the spectrum. In short, we have a perpetually decreasing pool of goods that qualify as the very best. Yes, there are still good tailors to be found on Savile Row and in Naples, but their numbers are quite limited. Many of the finest names in clothing and accessory goods now produce items that are mediocre at best ... primarily because they have given in to mass production and quantity.

Yes, we do have a greater quantity available than ever before ... but items that qualify as being the best quality are scarce.
If the best is what one seeks ... things don't look good.

Okay I'm done editing ... I think ... well ...

This is completely true.
"Luxury" is much more accessible now than it was before.
Actual high-quality stuff just doesn't exist in great supply, especially in the U.S. The situation is a bit less dire in continental Europe.

 

[Dewey]

RSS, maybe there is not more quality & quantity & access to the best of the best, now, vs. 20 years ago, but certainly there is much more available today than vs. 100 years ago (which is the reference for the article).

I think "available" is the key word for me today. 100 years ago, there was no airplane, no internet, and no Fedex. Only a very few people would bother to travel extensively to explore all the world's markets, and when they did, it would be for a relatively short time in their life.

What are you thinking that makes your statement obvious? Are you lamenting the loss of artisans?

To that I would say, not all artisans were good in ye olde days. Tailors were proverbially regarded with great contempt by their patrons -- what was the expression -- "the ninth part of a man"? The best tailors today get a lot more respect than their ancestors did 100 years ago.

And before 1900, handmade shoes were as often wretched as not. People rejoiced to see machine stitching for the first time in their life. Maybe in London the uber wealthy could easily change artisans, if their tailor was incompetent at something. But they were still stuck in London, and there was no easy access to most of the world's luxury markets.

 

[RSS]

Originally Posted by Dewey

RSS, maybe there is not more quality & quantity & access to the best of the best, now, vs. 20 years ago, but certainly there is much more available today than vs. 100 years ago (which is the reference for the article).
Personally I don't see much difference between now and twenty years ago. I see a much greater difference between now and sixty years ago. But I think 100 years ago there was an even greater quantity of quality clothing and accessories available. One hundred years ago the purveyors of quality were small operations (not the global corporations of today peddling fake "luxury") who were supported by a rather limited clientele. I don't deny that fewer people could avail themselves of their goods ... as the good weren't intended for everyone ... they were intended only for those who could afford luxury. Those goods had a market ... and that market was well served. Now I'm not saying that this served mankind well ... as it served a limited few.

Originally Posted by Dewey

I think "available" is the key word for me today. 100 years ago, there was no airplane, no internet, and no Fedex. Only a very few people would bother to travel extensively to explore all the world's markets, and when they did, it would be for a relatively short time in their life.)
Airplanes, FedEx, and the internet have indeed opened the world to the middle class. It has presented them with a world that for years belonged only to the wealthy.

Originally Posted by Dewey

Are you lamenting the loss of artisans?

To that I would say, not all artisans were good in ye olde days. Tailors were proverbially regarded with great contempt by their patrons -- what was the expression -- "the ninth part of a man"? The best tailors today get a lot more respect than their ancestors did 100 years ago.

And before 1900, handmade shoes were as often wretched as not.
Indeed we have always had the exceptional, the good, the mediocre, and the bad. But yes, I do lament the loss of those artisans who had the ability to produce quality.

Originally Posted by Dewey

People rejoiced to see machine stitching for the first time in their life.
I don't deny this. And in general I think the availability of goods to the greater population outweighs the loss of the highest quality artisans. A greater portion of mankind is served. Still, that doesn't change my point, that this mass market availability has diminished the availability of items of the very highest quality. One has had a tremendous impact on the other.

Originally Posted by Dewey

Maybe in London the uber wealthy could easily change artisans, if their tailor was incompetent at something. But they were still stuck in London, and there was no easy access to most of the world's luxury markets.
In 1911 the wealthy -- the wealthy have always been the market for the finest goods -- could and did travel with not as much difficulty as you suggest. One hundred years ago there were trains and steamships (the Lusitania, Mauretania, Olympic, etc.) of significant abilities. Those of wealth did move about ... not as easily as today ... but they weren't as static as you imply. And it was only a few decades before tailors were plying the North Atlantic and even opening shops in New York.

Well, that's about all I have time for now. It's VERY late for me.

 

[bluesman528]

Originally Posted by RSS

Still, that doesn't change my point, that this mass market availability has diminished the availability of items of the very highest quality. One has had a tremendous impact on the other.
I'm actually not so sure about that. Aside from availability, modern clothes production has brought us consistency and quality assurance. I suppose that the clothes detailing and fabric quality made by artisans (or some who would call themselves an artisan for marketing reasons

) in the good old days were more hit and miss when working for undemanding customers and would get quite some critical roasting from the experienced SF folk today. Today the better availability means that the customer is able to compare those goods from multiple sources and learn from that process.

Frankly, I think that mass production of clothes has put only the mediocre tailors out of business. Probably the best of the best of them according to today's expectations of experienced customers were very few in their peer group a hundred years ago, too. What we lack today because of mass production is exclusivity though. Seeing this as a disadvantage seems to me kind of based on romantic imagination which does not conform well to reality. Today there are many more wealthy people worldwide than hundred years ago. Therefore even the remaining artisans have to scale up their operations if they want to stay in business, they need to brand themselves to become known to their target audience. Perhaps some of the romanticism becomes lost in the process but is the product necessarily worse in the end? I would go as far as to say that there are many customers of high-end RTW which are considerably better dressed regarding quality and fit than they would be with some average tailors of the old times doing their work from scratch.

 

[RSS]

Originally Posted by bluesman528

I'm actually not so sure about that. Aside from availability, modern clothes production has brought us consistency and quality assurance
This is indeed true in the middle range and even with better RTW. But neither of those qualifies as the very finest. To be blunt ... neither one is the subject of my post.

Originally Posted by bluesman528

I suppose that the clothes detailing and fabric quality made by artisans (or some who would call themselves an artisan for marketing reasons) in the good old days were more hit and miss when working for undemanding customers and would get quite some critical roasting from the experienced SF folk today. Today the better availability means that the customer is able to compare those goods from multiple sources and learn from that process.
Of course it was hit and miss ... as I noted ... one has always been able to find the very best, the good, the mediocre, and the poor. I'm talking of those who could afford the best, recognized the best, and who patronized the best. I'm not speaking of those who couldn’t afford them, didn’t recognize them, and/or didn’t patronize them.

Your comment about experienced SF folk is amusing. I don't think of many SF folk as all that discerning. There are very very few such experienced SF folk today ... there were perhaps a few more a couple of years back ... but there were never very many.

Originally Posted by bluesman528

I would go as far as to say that there are many customers of high-end RTW which are considerably better dressed regarding quality and fit than they would be with some average tailors of the old times doing their work from scratch.
Of course the person of whom you speak is better dressed today via RTW than had he been dressed by an average custom tailor in yesteryear. But that is beside the point. I'm not talking about that customer who was dressed by an average tailor. I'm talking of the customer who sought out and demanded the best. Had a person selected an average tailor -- while being able to afford much better (and it was certainly available) -- the customer was the only one to blame. I'm not speaking of those who could not or did not avail themselves of the best.

And again to summarize ... I think the greater population is better served today via the availability of higher quality mass production. Those who have always sought the very finest, were better served in times past.