Ingredients in Venetian Shoe Cream

[David Copeland]

So has there been any consensus on why Patrick's shoes are cracking?


Is it because he used Reno, or is it because of something else?


I would think others would have experienced the same problem by now if it were because of Reno????

I think I would join Patrick in feeling pretty distraught and angry - if I had discovered that all of my precious and expensive shoes were now cracking. No question in my mind about how he feels. (One of the worse feelings is that of betrayal. And there have been times when I was betrayed, and there have been times when I thought I was betrayed. And I would wish neither on anyone)

And one of the reasons why I am offering to make phone calls on his behalf to Kirby at Hangerproject and Nick at B Nelson's - is to help get his shoes FIXED & RESTORED and returned to that luster look he so much wants.

I am not much into the blame game as to how the milk may or may not have gotten spilled - but more into let's get it fixed, as long as we understand what steps, what time tables, what amount of applications, what routine, and what products should be used.

I believe the answer you want regarding Patrick's shoes - will have to come from Patrick once he gets his shoes restored (which hopefully can be done soon)

If you have questions about the use of Saphir products, and the order in which they should be used - I still believe the best website in the country for tutorials and instructions is Hangerproject (until someone points me to another). And their phone is always available to call for personal help.

David

 

[h4id]

~posted in wrong thread, please delete post~

 

[styleproha]

I think I would join Patrick in feeling pretty distraught and angry - if I had discovered that all of my precious and expensive shoes were now cracking. No question in my mind about how he feels. (One of the worse feelings is that of betrayal. And there have been times when I was betrayed, and there have been times when I thought I was betrayed. And I would wish neither on anyone)

And one of the reasons why I am offering to make phone calls on his behalf to Kirby at Hangerproject and Nick at B Nelson's - is to help get his shoes FIXED & RESTORED and returned to that luster look he so much wants.

I am not much into the blame game as to how the milk may or may not have gotten spilled - but more into let's get it fixed, as long as we understand what steps, what time tables, what amount of applications, what routine, and what products should be used.

I believe the answer you want regarding Patrick's shoes - will have to come from Patrick once he gets his shoes restored (which hopefully can be done soon)

If you have questions about the use of Saphir products, and the order in which they should be used - I still believe the best website in the country for tutorials and instructions is Hangerproject (until someone points me to another). And their phone is always available to call for personal help.

David

Pardon me for resurrecting such and old thread but I feel this is still unresolved.

I was really gung-ho about the Saphir Renovateur until I came across the MSDS just now. Most of it is just chemical solvent and emollient. Granted, this MSDS doesn't list the non-hazardous ingredients, this simply is not the all natural "liquid gold" godsend its touted to be. Almost everything that Kirby Allison says about it is simply not true based on just this MSDS.

What am I missing here? Isn't this simply marketing magic?

I'm reaching out to Avel as well and will update if they respond.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Pardon me for resurrecting such and old thread but I feel this is still unresolved.

I was really gung-ho about the Saphir Renovateur until I came across the MSDS just now. Most of it is just chemical solvent and emollient. Granted, this MSDS doesn't list the non-hazardous ingredients, this simply is not the all natural "liquid gold" godsend its touted to be. Almost everything that Kirby Allison says about it is simply not true based on just this MSDS.

What am I missing here? Isn't this simply marketing magic?

I'm reaching out to Avel as well and will update if they respond.

To be fair most all of shoe care products contain a solvent of some sort. Also do we know that msds is from the old renovateur or the Medaille dOr version? We don't know. Also an msds isn't required to show all ingredients, only potentially hazardous in some way.

 

[styleproha]

To be fair most all of shoe care products contain a solvent of some sort. Also do we know that msds is from the old renovateur or the Medaille dOr version? We don't know. Also an msds isn't required to show all ingredients, only potentially hazardous in some way.

As far as the MSDS, it's for a product named Renovateur Pommadier Saphir, which technically is a product that doesn't exist to my knowledge. I figured it was just naming semantics.

I do understand that a MSDS only shows the required hazardous ingredients and that is actually my point. If it contains all these hazardous ingredients, can it really be all that great and natural for leather?

I read under DuPont's description that the solvent is fairly fast evaporating so maybe it doesn't affect the leather too much. But that still doesn't address the emollient listed.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Solvents do evaporate, albeit at different rates, and some solvents are more irritating to skin than others. A non irritating solvent that evaporates very fast is siloxane. Siloxane is a VOC silicone which is a boogeyman in the shoe care world and wrongly so.

What's your issue with the emollient?

Also, natural doesn't always mean better, or safer. Uranium is natural...

Try Saphir's nappa balm, there's no solvents in it at all. Allegedly.

 

[styleproha]

Solvents do evaporate, albeit at different rates, and some solvents are more irritating to skin than others. A non irritating solvent that evaporates very fast is siloxane. Siloxane is a VOC silicone which is a boogeyman in the shoe care world and wrongly so.

What's your issue with the emollient?

Also, natural doesn't always mean better, or safer. Uranium is natural...

Try Saphir's nappa balm, there's no solvents in it at all. Allegedly.

No issue. It's just annoying that Renovateur is touted as the holy grail, all natural, liquid gold, (add more superlatives) of shoe conditioners, yet it's definitely not "all natural". Yet Kirby Allison says it in all his videos.

Anyway, all that aside, what is the general consensus here? Is Saphir Renovateur the best conditioner for full-grain leather? Also, is it okay to not follow it up with polish?

 

[Trqmaster]

Hey patrickBOOTH. What is your take on conditioners/cleaners using orange oil so it contains limonene as a solvent?

 

[patrickBOOTH]

The only advantages I see with limonene is it smells better than turpentine and it evaporates ~3 times faster than turpentine. Other than that it's a solvent.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

No issue. It's just annoying that Renovateur is touted as the holy grail, all natural, liquid gold, (add more superlatives) of shoe conditioners, yet it's definitely not "all natural". Yet Kirby Allison says it in all his videos.

Anyway, all that aside, what is the general consensus here? Is Saphir Renovateur the best conditioner for full-grain leather? Also, is it okay to not follow it up with polish?

Many people use it without polishing over it. It buffs to a nice shine. In my time using different products I've yet to use one that I consider a "grail" product. Honestly, I don't think any of them are bad (except for saddle soap) but there isn't much proof that I've seen that they help much either. Shoes in my rotation seem to last me about 3 or 4 years regardless of how or if I care for them.

I think the quality of the hide, the type of animal it comes off of, the age of the animal it comes off of, and clicking the patterns in prime areas of the hide make more difference in shoe longevity than products will. YMMV.

 

[styleproha]

Many people use it without polishing over it. It buffs to a nice shine. In my time using different products I've yet to use one that I consider a "grail" product. Honestly, I don't think any of them are bad (except for saddle soap) but there isn't much proof that I've seen that they help much either. Shoes in my rotation seem to last me about 3 or 4 years regardless of how or if I care for them.

I think the quality of the hide, the type of animal it comes off of, the age of the animal it comes off of, and clicking the patterns in prime areas of the hide make more difference in shoe longevity than products will. YMMV.

Okay, thanks. I don't have much experience with any of this yet so I can't speak to the longevity of it. However, what you say about the quality of the hide does make sense, hence why people prefer Cordovan I guess.

Why do you think saddle soap is bad though? According to the MSDS for Fiebing's Saddle Soap Paste, it's mostly soap and water.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

The fact that it is soap and water is exactly why it is bad. Leather leaves the tannery in an acidic state and to keep it healthy you want it to stay there. When you introduce alkalinity to it such as a soap the protein fibers shift to ionic negative and all of the tanning constituents leach out making the leather stiff and brittle like rawhide.

 

[styleproha]

The fact that it is soap and water is exactly why it is bad. Leather leaves the tannery in an acidic state and to keep it healthy you want it to stay there. When you introduce alkalinity to it such as a soap the protein fibers shift to ionic negative and all of the tanning constituents leach out making the leather stiff and brittle like rawhide.

Will re-conditioning it with Renovateur afterwards not bring it back to it's original acidic state?

Regardless, is there an alternative product you would recommend for cleaning then?

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Renovateur doesn't have a pH as it is non-polar. The best cleaning product would be Lexol's pH adjusted cleaner, but I honestly don't see why you'd ever need to use it unless your slipping around in the mud. 1/3 white vinegar and 2/3 distilled water and a wipe down will probably be all they ever need honestly.

 

[starro]

Hi pB, have you tried Leather Honey? Much has been made about how deeply it penetrates into the leather and how it can revive any old dry leather. Trying to see what the actual experiences are vs marketing hype.