Info on pre-Church's McAfee shoes?

[j]

Got some interest in these, and was hoping to see if anyone knows more about who used to make them for McAfee. These are alligator loafers, probably from the 60s or 70s - the insoles are stamped in gold, "Alan McAfee / London / made expressly for / Quist's McAfee Shop / Seattle / Made in England". The soles appear to be stamped (weak stamp) "Alan McAfee / Handmade Bespoke / Made in England". Inside is handwritten "8-1/2E 8H / 58918".

They are a UK 8.5, equating to around a 9-9.5US.

Any idea when these were made, by whom (did McAfee have their own workshop?) and how much they should sell for? I'm at a loss with few examples to look at for reference. Thanks.

 

[pejsek]

j, I've been trying to piece this mystery together for years. Though the majority of McAfee shoes seem to be the result of some exclusivity clause in the Church's concession (meaning that the same shoes were branded McAfee to stay within the confines of the contractual deal, e.g. here in San Francisco Bullock & Jones carried McAfee shoes to avoid a conflict with the Church's store), as far as I can tell there were certainly times when McAfee made rtw shoes on their own--or even for others (I have an old pair of Paul Stuart shoes which feature the McAfee polo player embossed in gold on the soles while the liner reads simply Paul Stuart). McAfee, of course, was a venerable old bespoke shoe maker. Paul Davies, who does business under The London Shoemaker name (and apparently makes very nice bespoke shoes), worked for McAfee at one point in time. You might try contacting him with specific questions. I recently found an old pair of brown sea turtle slip-ons that are clearly rtw. They match my black bespoke sea turtle slip-ons in nearly every way, except, of course, that they carry a marked size, etc. The only conclusion I can reach from this is that they must have been made in the same workshop as the bespoke shoes (esp. since sea turtle was both costly and fairly unusual). If you can show a picture of the liner that might yield a few more clues. Do they show the polo player or any address?
I've long admired those shoes of yours, but I don't have much of an idea on value. Exotic skins, for some reason, seem to be undervalued on ebay. But since yours are such a simple classic design, in great condition, and possibly even the product of the same workshop which produced the bespoke shoes, I would certainly hold out for top dollar.

 

[j]

Thanks, Pejsek. Here's the stamp:

I'm offering them on the forum, probably not on ebay, but I'm trying to get an idea of what I should ask... it's a pain to guess valuation on things that are really rare and obscure. Brand new and current they would obviously cost well upwards of $1000 if not $2000 (look at even RL Polo alligators). But lightly used and with an obscure name, who knows.

Maybe I should list them on ebay with Church's in the title...

 

[Baron]

I've loved those from the first time you posted them. I've been considering ordering a pair of Kemptons from Plal for the longest time - those are similar but the exotic skin makes them extra cool. They may be a bit small for me, but if not, I'm a "bidder" if and when you offer them.

 

[j]

They are marked 8-1/2 E, but I can get my foot into them (tight, though), and I wear a 10UK or occasional 9.5UK, so they are probably a 9.5-10US equivalent.

They are basically on offer, but I want to get more info before I decide on a price.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Maybe Oliver Sweeney (the man) will give you some information:
http://www.oliversweeney.com/

He worked for years at Alan McAfee's, starting at retail, becoming branch manager and ending up as managing director of the company. (It was on his watch that the company folded in the mid 80s.)

Alternativly Paul Davies (the London shoemaker) might help you. I believe, he worked for Alan McAfee on the bespoke side.
http://www.thelondonshoemaker.co.uk/

 

[j]

Thank you bengal-stripe, I'll contact them tomorrow. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this and maybe pejsek's mystery as well.

 

[pejsek]

j, I've never seen that stamp. I like it quite a bit, but it doesn't incorporate any familiar design elements. The polo player or mention of Dover Street might mitigate in favor of a closer tie to the McAfee workshop; otoh, it could be that Quist's itself was the big selling point here. In other words, I'm not sure what's going on. Do you know anything about Quist's? Was it a stand-alone shoe store? I did a little bit of googling and my best guess would be that they might have been an outgrowth of Quist's Trading Post, which started in MN and perhaps moved West. That Sporting Goods USA outfit seems to have had some Quist's McAfees up on ebay, so it might be that Quist's sold a fair number of shoes in Seattle at one time. Looking at that stamp with its clear echos of the Edwardian Age (and also based on the styling), I find it hard to imagine the shoes were made after the 1960s.
One point to remember regarding the Church's-McAfee bifurcation is that they really were the very same shoes, right down (I believe) to the model names written in an identical hand. This shoe stands on its own.
bengal-stripe's suggestion about contacting Oliver Sweeney is a great idea.
Anyway, as I said, I really don't know how to assign a value to these. In doing that, however, keep in mind that McAfee had long been a very highly regarded shoemaker. The materials and construction are clearly top-notch and the styling is absolutely classic. Even at the time they were made there must have been a hefty surcharge for the alligator. If the shoes are in good condition (as they appear to be) with no tears or cracking and minimal wear on the soles...well, I wouldn't give them away for nothing. How's that for specific?

 

[rnoldh]

J,
I've got a pair of vintage Nettleton Black Alligator Bluchers. Very nice, but not as nice as your McAfees. Very different too, of course. I think they are worth about $100 (a very subjective evaluation).

Your shoes have an older style. But they are one of those classic timeless styles, and I don't think that their styling will hurt their price. And the McAfee-Church lineage adds to their value.

They are in nice condition (seems so in the pictures), and they have beautiful matched skins, which an Alligator shoe aficionado will appreciate.

I think a price of $150-$200 on SF is about right. That's just my opinion.

You could probably get more on Ebay. Remember the late, lamented (by some!), SF member whowhatme. Say what you will, he got a high price for those "Priceless Lobb Boots", on Ebay.

Use whomewhat's formula. List your shoes on the Ebay "no insertion fee" sale days. Hype the heck out of them. List them very high. Say with a BIN price of $2500 and a start price of $499. Use lots of pictures and copy. Stress the shoes rarity. Alternatively, use a Bin price of $2000 with a "Make an offer" feature.

If you are willing to wait, and relist a lot, I think you could eventually get about $500 on Ebay.

 

[fisherO]

bengal stripe is really something