Indonesian Boot Makers (Onderhoud, Benzein, RenavGoods, Santalum, etc)

[justsayno]

good looking last, clicking can be better

 

[milkbaby]

Wearing brogue wingtip boots from Fortis today. Leather is waxy ortensia from Badalassi Carlo tannery. Was a more brilliant hue when I first received them but seem to be a bit sun faded after about a year. I guess this is typical for a lot of intense colors in leather, what can you do... 🤷‍♂️

Today:

March 2024:

 

[Keyser_Söze]

MTO Jakkrabbits Service Boots arrived today. Took about 3 months, ordered in October.

Shinki leather
Unstructured cap toe
Dr. soles supergrip

Fit is fine, a bit loose in the heel and waist, and these boots are visibly smaller than my Vibergs in a size 8. Pretty much no break in, it feels comfortable upon putting them on aside from the gusseted tongue making it a bit hard to get in.
Stitching is very clean, some of the clicking is a little messy but not really noticeable.

Would I order again...ehhh maybe not, took too long from what was quoted and the leather is just alright, but I'm just nitpicking. It seems like there's coarse break in the vamp area which if I'm being honest, I hope it doesn't become some veiny looking mess.

Are they better in terms of construction to Vibergs. No, but are they worth what I paid? ~$479 (due to the customizations)...I think at this pricepoint it's fine, you get whatever you want in terms of customization which is nice. I'd probably buy it at 300 though.

How would you compare quality to Grant Stone? I ask because it's in the same price point.

 

[Nykwil]

How would you compare quality to Grant Stone? I ask because it's in the same price point.

Maybe its the leather I chose but it's not very thick and doesn't keep your foot warm. Probably great for the summer climates.

These boots are light, they're lighter than my plain toe grant stone crimson shoe.

They're not as comfortable either. I would say grant stone's lasts are better refined, these feel like sliding into slides without as much support, the waist and heel cup don't hug as well. Maybe they need more breaking into or something. My foot pushes forward when walking in these as well.

Live and learn.

We'll see how they feel after a month.

 

[Keyser_Söze]

Maybe its the leather I chose but it's not very thick and doesn't keep your foot warm. Probably great for the summer climates.

These boots are light, they're lighter than my plain toe grant stone crimson shoe.

They're not as comfortable either. I would say grant stone's lasts are better refined, these feel like sliding into slides without as much support, the waist and heel cup don't hug as well. Maybe they need more breaking into or something. My foot pushes forward when walking in these as well.

Live and learn.

We'll see how they feel after a month.

Would sizing down 1/2 size have helped?

 

[Nykwil]

Would sizing down 1/2 size have helped?

No, they made me send them tracings and measurements of my feet. They would be too tight a half size smaller.

They're smaller than my size 8 vibergs but the same size as my size 8 redwings

I think an insole will help and we'll se how it breaks in some more.

I would say in terms of lightness/weight, the jakkrabbits have a similar weight to the redwings, but the vibergs are nice and hefty.

 

[Nykwil]

I may be harshing in these jakks too much.

I should give em a chance.

Probably spoiled from wearing vibergs and whites.

I would put these in terms of construction quality right beside redwings. Probably same in comfort.

Edit: I don’t hate them. I just feel like I could’ve gotten more for the price? But they’re def red wings quality. They should definitely work on their lasts.

 

[Nykwil]

My honest Joe bloke take on this without the IG or YouTube influence?

I found this brand with Google search looking for Shinki boots. Went down rabbit hole, got plenty of Shinki jackets of my own to figure out that these boots will look crackling.

I don’t think Indonesia has the crafting quality of Japan or China yet.

 

[jischwar]

My honest Joe bloke take on this without the IG or YouTube influence?

I found this brand with Google search looking for Shinki boots. Went down rabbit hole, got plenty of Shinki jackets of my own to figure out that these boots will look crackling.

I don’t think Indonesia has the crafting quality of Japan or China yet.

Agreed with you, their lasts just aren't there and now with cost parity, it's hard to recommend them. I can think of only a handful of guys I'd get boots from over there

 

[milkbaby]

I don’t think Indonesia has the crafting quality of Japan or China yet.

I personally disagree with you based on my admittedly limited experiences. I say this based on owning footwear from Indonesian brands Santalum, Fortis, Sagara, and Briselblack (formerly known as Benzein) compared to Japanese brands Rolling Dub Trio, Attractions/Builtbuck, and whoever manufactures Y'2 Leather's footwear. My only Chinese brand experience is Iron Boots though I do have American brand Grant Stone which are manufactured in China.

The finishing of my Indonesian boots are often as good and surprisingly sometimes better than my Japanese boots.

While Iron Boots gets acclaim for their finishing work, I personally do not find them obviously head and shoulders above other brands. They are excellent but not AMAZING. In fact, if you look at the RTW pair here https://iron-boots.com/products/ostmo-x-iron-boots-drop-11-rtw-pair there are a few spots that aren't super clean on the stitching and the left boot looks lasted somewhat less perfect than the right boot when you look at the location of the facings.

I don't find it useful to talk about lasts except for whether a brand offers multiple choices because whether a last works well for you or me is highly dependent on our own individual anatomy. Alden is known for their anatomical approach to lasts, yet some people still cannot find an option from Alden that works for them.

I love my White's, and they're probably my favorite brand based on how many pairs I own (eight pairs), but outside of other PNW brands, I would be surprised if anyone matched their type of construction. And their finishing quality is no where as refined as many other brands, but that's fine by me considering their work and firefighting boot heritage and customer base.

These are just my opinions based on my experiences.

 

[BananaKing]

My Benzein Chelsea boots bought 2-3 years ago are very good. Hand welted. Beautiful rounded heel cup shape and midfoot uppers feels moulded and hug my arch. Stitching is perfect. Clipping excellent.

They just recommended a half size too large. But I’ve found an insole that works and they fit perfectly with those.

 

[HomunculusTheElder]

I think one thing that is crucial in the discussion about these Indonesian makers is the fact that they are hand-welted, a labor intensive process that can take up to two full days of work from a master craftsman (compare this to the 30 seconds that it would take a rapid E stitcher).

In terms of value then, these boots would be easily three times the price in the west.

 

[Nykwil]

I think one thing that is crucial in the discussion about these Indonesian makers is the fact that they are hand-welted, a labor intensive process that can take up to two full days of work from a master craftsman (compare this to the 30 seconds that it would take a rapid E stitcher).

In terms of value then, these boots would be easily three times the price in the west.

What good is hand welting (which I understand is a labor intensive process) if the boots don't fit or have a last that fits well? Jakkrabbits has a bunch of different last shapes. Does the hand-welting make up for thin leather, or less than refined lasts? This is my fault for not asking more questions and doing more research. People will reach for what feels comfortable.

My white's mp were $550 when I bought them in 2020, they're hand sewn stitch down and feel like a tank, granted the stitching isn't even or as clean, I still appreciate it.

I'm still trying to see where the value of these boots are if they don't feel great.

I'm willing to admit I've made a mistake ordering my pair, but now I have em and might as well eat my costs and make the best of em. I won't be risking another pair. I already have enough boots.

No one's mistake but mine. I have only one experience with Indonesian boots. So I feel I can give an honest opinion and say I won't risk getting another pair. I'll just lurk viberg whatsapp warehouse sale group.

It sucks because I really wanted to like these boots too.

 

[HomunculusTheElder]

What good is hand welting (which I understand is a labor intensive process) if the boots don't fit or have a last that fits well? Jakkrabbits has a bunch of different last shapes. Does the hand-welting make up for thin leather, or less than refined lasts? This is my fault for not asking more questions and doing more research. People will reach for what feels comfortable.

My white's mp were $550 when I bought them in 2020, they're hand sewn stitch down and feel like a tank, granted the stitching isn't even or as clean, I still appreciate it.

I'm still trying to see where the value of these boots are if they don't feel great.

I'm willing to admit I've made a mistake ordering my pair, but now I have em and might as well eat my costs and make the best of em. I won't be risking another pair. I already have enough boots.

No one's mistake but mine. I have only one experience with Indonesian boots. So I feel I can give an honest opinion and say I won't risk getting another pair. I'll just lurk viberg whatsapp warehouse sale group.

It sucks because I really wanted to like these boots too.

Totally valid points of course.

As for White's they are not hand-welted in the same way...they have this interesting hybrid stitch down where a strip is sewn on by hand, but the actually stitching of the outsole is done by one of those big sewing machines.

Sorry that your experience was not satisfactory with Indonesian makers. I myself have had my fair share of frustration with some of them, especially on the communication front. It is a shame really when the product they are offering is quite special but orders get mixed up in translation!

As an alternative I would have suggested BLKBRD, which are hand-welted AND have a much more solid feel to them (I agree that Indonesian makers tend to feel more like Red Wings in terms of robustness--their heel-stiffeners are thinner).

 

[MickeyPunch]

I have a pair of Jakkrabbit boots, too. I fell in love with these ones above (been looking for a pair with brown edge for a while, and loved the heel shape) so I ordered the same except without the captoe and black stitching instead of white. They’re in the same teacore Shinki as the ones being discussed. Leather is fine IMO.

I like them quite a bit and construction wise I can’t find any fault (I can name a few in my more expensive pairs from traditional and respected shoemakers) but I agree that the weakest point is by far the last. Mine are wide. I’m not sure if that’s just how the last is or if they try to adjust to the measurements that they ask for. Comfort wise they’re alright (with the included insoles, otherwise they’d be too big) and actually my tailor’s bunion loves them, but the sheer width of the last combined with the pretty pronounced taper makes them not great looking from above. They look fantastic from the side though, just like in the picture above.

And it’s true that they’re lighter than my C&J, Alden, Guidi, Buttero, etc. but heavier than my lightest pair, the SLP Jodhpurs. Maybe it’s the shank? Dunno.