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Income/Clothes Spend ratio?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Britalian, Jul 2, 2006.

  1. Yudi

    Yudi Member

    Messages:
    19
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    May 6, 2006
    actually, i did make a mistake with my decimal point. make that 1.1% [​IMG]

    2004- 20 pair underwear, 20 pair socks, 3 hoodies, 3 tee shirts, maybe 3 or 4 sweat pants, 3 or 4 pair shorts, one pair sneakers
    2005 - 2 pair shoes (bespoke vass ankle boots)
    2006 - 6 ties, 3 or 4 pairs of shoe laces.


    You went half a year buying only 6 ties and some shoelaces? Wow, I seriously admire your restraint. Your basic wardrobe must be top notch if all you need are little top ups like that.
     
  2. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    You went half a year buying only 6 ties and some shoelaces? Wow, I seriously admire your restraint. Your basic wardrobe must be top notch if all you need are little top ups like that.


    well, that and being unemployed. when I got a job the first thing I did was call Chuck and buy a couple of ties.
     
  3. Britalian

    Britalian Senior member

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  4. Spencer Young

    Spencer Young Senior member

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    I have a question about the European styling. In my visits, I've noticed that Europeans tend to dress both better and more expensively. If European countries have a lower GDP per capita, their citizens spend *more* on clothing, and presumably they have a higher savings rate than the US, what is being crowded out? I tried asking my friend who's been studying in Paris this question, but she said something like "well healthcare is free or cheap" (completely disregarding the whole taxation issue). It sounds like Europeans must be giving something up in order to afford their clothing, but what is it? Cars?
     
  5. skalogre

    skalogre Senior member

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    I have a question about the European styling. In my visits, I've noticed that Europeans tend to dress both better and more expensively. If European countries have a lower GDP per capita, their citizens spend *more* on clothing, and presumably they have a higher savings rate than the US, what is being crowded out? I tried asking my friend who's been studying in Paris this question, but she said something like "well healthcare is free or cheap" (completely disregarding the whole taxation issue). It sounds like Europeans must be giving something up in order to afford their clothing, but what is it? Cars?

    No, cars are not cheap. Neither are insurance, registration, et.c. Healthcare costs are a significant reduction though, as are things like paid daycare et.c. Depends on the country and area, however.
     
  6. HitMan009

    HitMan009 Senior member

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    Are you asking pre-tax or after tax income? [​IMG]
     
  7. Get Smart

    Get Smart Senior member

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    I do a lot of freelance work in addition to a full time job. I'd say half+ of that freelance scratch goes to gear.
     
  8. Spencer Young

    Spencer Young Senior member

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    Are you asking pre-tax or after tax income? [​IMG]

    GDP/capita is pre-tax, so I'm trying to wrap my mind around how Europeans can earn less money (pretax), have a higher tax rate, save more money (post-tax), AND purchase more expensive clothing without crowding some other 'consumption' out. Do Europeans just simply not purchase something that Americans do, or is there something in the American lifestyle that is vastly more expensive than its European counterpart (wine)? I feel like healthcare can't explain it all, as they're still paying for it through taxes - although they do pay less for prescription drugs (mooches), I doubt most young people who are buying designer stuff are really on that many drugs.
     
  9. Britalian

    Britalian Senior member

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    Italy.
    Just scored. Twice.
    Sorry[​IMG]
    Well, many people who live here get good pension provision in the future, through taxes, of course. (something I think they'll soon have to wake up to, like France. Or, maybe not...)
    Also, a lot of Italians, male and female, live at home with parents, grandparents, well into 20s and 30s till (sometimes never) they get married. (No rent) . And when they do, they often get an apartment/ house 'given' as a start-out 'present'. No mortgage.
    I'm sure there are other reasons, too...[​IMG]
     
  10. Sartorially Challenged

    Sartorially Challenged Senior member

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    On average, the material quality of living is substantially lower in Europe, even in Western Europe (compared to the U.S.). Europeans have fewer cars, air conditioning and home square footage per capita (the average "poor" person in the U.S. has a larger house than an average person in Europe). In other words, Europeans often lack many things Americans take for granted as being "normal" material possessions.

    Europeans have lower disposable income and often do not have stocks and/or mutual funds. They often do not have second cars (that is, if they even have a car to begin with) or boats. According to a Swedish study, adjusted for PPP, 40% of, for example, the Swedish population would be considered living below the poverty line IF American standards of "poverty" were applied to Sweden. Simply put, the American poor have material comforts that middle-class Europeans often do not, especially outside affluent Western Europe.

    The high savings rate in Europe depends to some extent on culture, but also on lack of available credit (inefficient and/or politically-controlled banking system) and comparatively high price of housing per income (one has to save up a LONG time to buy a house), that is to say, by necessity.

    This was also the case, for example, in South Korea where a very high savings rate persisted... until the credit system was liberalized, leading to the plummeting of the savings rate.
     
  11. Henry Boogers

    Henry Boogers Senior member

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    I refuse to calcualate this. [​IMG]

    Anyhow, the only fair comparison would be what percent of your disposable income you spend on clothing. The only issue there, of course, is that most of us probably view double discounted RL PL (EG) shoes as necessary expenditures rather than spending of disposable income. [​IMG]
     
  12. tiger02

    tiger02 Senior member

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    3.8% for 2006 through July 4th.
     
  13. Briguy

    Briguy Member

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    Detroit, Michigan
    Last year, 9%. This year, 7 or 8%. If my wife is reading this, only 3% (cough cough).
     
  14. Duveen

    Duveen Senior member

    Messages:
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    Apr 25, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    On average, the material quality of living is substantially lower in Europe, even in Western Europe (compared to the U.S.). Europeans have fewer cars, air conditioning and home square footage per capita (the average "poor" person in the U.S. has a larger house than an average person in Europe). In other words, Europeans often lack many things Americans take for granted as being "normal" material possessions. Europeans have lower disposable income and often do not have stocks and/or mutual funds. They often do not have second cars (that is, if they even have a car to begin with) or boats. According to a Swedish study, adjusted for PPP, 40% of, for example, the Swedish population would be considered living below the poverty line IF American standards of "poverty" were applied to Sweden. Simply put, the American poor have material comforts that middle-class Europeans often do not, especially outside affluent Western Europe. The high savings rate in Europe depends to some extent on culture, but also on lack of available credit (inefficient and/or politically-controlled banking system) and comparatively high price of housing per income (one has to save up a LONG time to buy a house), that is to say, by necessity. This was also the case, for example, in South Korea where a very high savings rate persisted... until the credit system was liberalized, leading to the plummeting of the savings rate.
    Comments below address Western Europe (the initial 12 EU countries). Adding in Eastern European countries certainly changes the mix - maybe that is where you are getting the impression that Europeans are worse off than US. The Swedish poverty example is a bit of a chestnut - are you talking about average GDP? Looking at average GDP lumps Bill Gates in with Joe Jobless to get at an 'average' that does not account for serious inequality. Like it or loath it, what the European welfare state does is distribute costs across the whole economy and limit the amount that any one individual might actually have. Better indicator is the modal income (most common #, not average #). Also important to factor in/monetize the avoided costs of childcare, healthcare, etc. When looking @ cars - think about better public transit networks, higher costs of gas and cultural factors. Is the absence of a car a major problem to those who don't own them? Or are they rationally trading off these things. Boats are, I suppose, a measure of wealth but again I'd argue culture is different - Europeans may have other baubles (travel? clothes?) to waste their money on and not value boats. Absence of boats does not, to me, equal lower std of living. When looking @ lower 'disposable income', you are looking @ income after taxes. European taxes are higher, therefore disposable income is likely to be lower overall (and you are again dealing with averages - Bill Gates + homeless dude=2 rich guys on average). That said, some of US 'disposable' income is used to buy services from private vendors that the gov't supplies in Europe. House size is a function of population density - lots of McMansions in the heartland are cheap, doesn't mean that European housing stock is worse than American housing stock. Absence of AC is a fact and is one of the things that sucks about Europe, but I'd ask when that became a major index of well-being? My guess on lower levels of AC is -> higher per-unit energy costs in Europe + potentially tighter regulations increasing cost to produce/sin taxese. I am not saying that the European system is ideal or that they are all rolling in it, but I just can't square your picture of a Europe where most individuals are significantly poorer than every outward sign would lead one to believe. http://www.gesis.org/en/social_monit...income.htm#imp
     
  15. rajesh06

    rajesh06 Senior member

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    365
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    Dec 24, 2004
    Better indicator is the mean income (most common #, not average #). Also important to factor in/monetize the avoided costs of childcare, healthcare, etc.


    Not to quibble - because I agree with your overall points but:
    most common = mode
    half above; half below = median
    avearge does in fact = mean
     
  16. Duveen

    Duveen Senior member

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    Not to quibble - because I agree with your overall points but:
    most common = mode
    half above; half below = median
    avearge does in fact = mean


    Fair point rajesh - long day, and I don't play with economic terms as regularly as I used to...
     
  17. sygyzy

    sygyzy Senior member

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    1,552
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    Jun 2, 2006
    If you check the car posts on Superfuture, you realize how some of these kids afford to buy all this expensive streetwear. And yes, $200 jeans and $50 tees are expensive. The answer is, they don't buy anything else. I saw page after page of rediculously shitty cars. I know, a car is a losing investment and you should never buy new and blah blah blah. But who are you fooling when you walk out of a place with your designer shoes, fancy blazer, tailored shirt and cufflinks, and get into your 72 Datsun?
     
  18. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    Unless it's a 1972 Datsun 240, which can be nice.

    Vintage cars are so much more a style statement than most anything new. A $500,000 Maybach may not even retain as much as much flamboyance as a $5000 Mercedes-Benz from 1967. I know I'd certainly be much more apt to notice a '60s Mercedes Cabriolet than a new Bentley.
     
  19. sygyzy

    sygyzy Senior member

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    Unless it's a 1972 Datsun 240, which can be nice.

    Vintage cars are so much more a style statement than most anything new. A $500,000 Maybach may not even retain as much as much flamboyance as a $5000 Mercedes-Benz from 1967. I know I'd certainly be much more apt to notice a '60s Mercedes Cabriolet than a new Bentley.


    I was expecting this sort of response. You know what I meant, LabelKing.

    Sigh.
     
  20. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    I was expecting this sort of response. You know what I meant, LabelKing.

    Sigh.

    Of course. Someone with an $800 Honda is likely a prime example.
     

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