Important and Titillating Sartorial Observations

[SartodiNapoli]

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Face blackout added by me. Not in the original.

How many times I have explained that shirt was done by FINAMORE for me back on 2010 ( and those who have seen the pic can see my young face at that time, way before I started studying High Tailoring, so the evidence of FRAUD against me is CLEAR since the offender ( not Griffindork btw) says: a shirt he recently made ( and his post was from 2016, so “recent” means 6 years prior as more bs?

The shirt was then redone on 2010 by Finamore as they are very polite people, on the contraty to the offender, after the obvious bad work, and an user who you all know meanwhile is alleguedly spamming tons of people saying “I am crazy, mentally ill and bad shirtmaker , unable to do a single thing, or my name was Franco” among too many ridiculous things to list ( btw Franco is a surname nor a name here, not mine btw, and my name is not Franco) so you can imagine what heavy bs is there manipulating that pic and lying as is explained on my other expertice, psychopathogy, as is explained under the “malignant narcissism” DSM-V since I am writting my doctoral thesis (other reason I do not post too much nowadays) about psychopathy and narcissism, what is called the Dark Triad of personality.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism


If any has anything against me or whoever, better they use the TRUTH if they have any and any can say I ever scammed any one since I am as honest I can ever think about even that cost me money of my own budget, since as Tony Montana said, I only got two things in this world, word and... ( you know the rest) and I ain´t brake that rule for anyone-

This scene of the masterwork film do resume the situation better:



I ask for a public apologice ( too old and mature to ask the ban of other at this time) to ask if the user who “alleguedly” did it is not apologicing the forum to trouble honest people and bs innocent people with true deep psychopatic expossed ways and me for it.

In case his alleguedly narcissistic disorder is so deep to unable him to do it, I pardon him anyway and ask God to do the same about.

I have expossed too many scammers, btw all them did punctuate extremely on the psychopathic checklist test, ( the polite way to say “psychopaths”) sadly I was right on everything.

Tons of posters or happy clients who visited me on Naples on Sartoria Partenopea among other places before they closed, per example, can tell. Any can tell I scammed him.

Thank you and happy 2019 to the rest and sorry about this post that I kept privately for months with the mods. I got too much important things to do, as most of you do, that handle with inmature people who needs to learn humildty and honesty and manners instead of trying to fool out people with expensive clothes to show off while they lack of the prior and most important things in life. And you all know who do I mean at this time.

The moderators were advert months ago about the spamming trying to ruin my name with lies as that as they, as well as me, got his original private spamming post that I can post to expose this cobard and ridiculous bs if the mods agree but the better thing is to pray for this person so he can find his path. So I will incluide him on my daily prayings.

I also find this post useful for myself to ask apologies for some of my early back in time inmature and narcissistic posts, sadly most of them were done drunk or under the influence of some narcissism (not malignant thanks God). Has been years I do not drink a single drop and thanks Him to have brought me the oportunity to mature, to learn humildty by staying close to people who spreads it over and learn over my deep mistakes and errors.

I also want to give thanks to those who have helped me to be back on the rail, the rail to santify daily through work and the deep humildty I needed on the first half of my live and I ask Him to me to be able to ever reach to do the 33 button cassock that always wore Saint Jose María, because 33 whips got JesusChrist before his cruxification to save all us.

God bless you all

Sarto

 

[SartodiNapoli]

Come on man, you can do better than parroting Manton.

P.S. Shell is bullshit fite me.

I got a similar pair as those but from other brand. Great pic!

 

[SartodiNapoli]

In general, not mad. But I think it’s very odd that you have pictures of members that they haven’t voluntarily posted in this site that you share with other members. I think it’s immoral and inconsistent with common decency, and that it makes you a bad person. If you have private picture of styleforum members, you shouldn’t share them publicly for your amusement. It’s not right. Does that answer your question?

All your posts are angry though. You're constantly getting into arguments with people on here. If you think the hoi polloi on Styleforum undeserving of your time, why come back? Why bother to contribute?

Like, you're really out here angrily typing at people "oh yea, should I tell that to my bespoke last fitter at John Lobb St James? What do you know about Huntsman? So many opinions about bespoke on here, but how many people actually own a Cifonelli and Charvet?"

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Like, are you alright, my dude? I don't understand why you're such an angry person.

Why don’t you just apologize to the bored? It’s not right. Don’t expose people. Don’t share pictures that they don’t want shared. Last chance.

I hope you find peace. I mean that earnestly.

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Face blackout added by me. Not in the original.

Posted for later and posted at this time by me.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Um, wut?

 

[Bromley]

I've always found it kind of interesting that, as far as I've been able to learn, tailors don't patronize other tailors (upstart MTM operations excluded).

Think of nearly any other professional craft-- cooking, art/painting/sculpture, filmmaking, bartending... Chefs dine at colleagues' restaurants, filmmakers buy tickets to other filmmaker's movies. Authors read others' books.

Even in crafts where prices might be out of of the range of the craftspeople, I know of some who trade. Furniture makers exchanging items, artists swapping paintings.

In these non-tailoring fields, having things made by your colleagues seems to be good-natured, and community-building. And if it's neither of those things, then it's at least an obligatory part of participating in an industry. A friend runs a brewery, and a very definite part of his job is trying beer from other breweries.

There's a David Berman poem where he says something like, "Feeling pain makes a doctor a better doctor".

Why aren't tailors ordering clothes from other tailors? If they did, would it improve the quality of their work? Of bespoke tailoring in general? Don't tell me about how tailors can't stand each other.

 

[lordsuperb]

I've always found it kind of interesting that, as far as I've been able to learn, tailors don't patronize other tailors (upstart MTM operations excluded).

Think of nearly any other professional craft-- cooking, art/painting/sculpture, filmmaking, bartending... Chefs dine at colleagues' restaurants, filmmakers buy tickets to other filmmaker's movies. Authors read others' books.

Even in crafts where prices might be out of of the range of the craftspeople, I know of some who trade. Furniture makers exchanging items, artists swapping paintings.

In these non-tailoring fields, having things made by your colleagues seems to be good-natured, and community-building. And if it's neither of those things, then it's at least an obligatory part of participating in an industry. A friend runs a brewery, and a very definite part of his job is trying beer from other breweries.

There's a David Berman poem where he says something like, "Feeling pain makes a doctor a better doctor".

Why aren't tailors ordering clothes from other tailors? If they did, would it improve the quality of their work? Of bespoke tailoring in general? Don't tell me about how tailors can't stand each other.

Most people can't afford a $4k suit......

 

[emptym]

I've always found it kind of interesting that, as far as I've been able to learn, tailors don't patronize other tailors (upstart MTM operations excluded).

Think of nearly any other professional craft-- cooking, art/painting/sculpture, filmmaking, bartending... Chefs dine at colleagues' restaurants, filmmakers buy tickets to other filmmaker's movies. Authors read others' books.

Even in crafts where prices might be out of of the range of the craftspeople, I know of some who trade. Furniture makers exchanging items, artists swapping paintings.

In these non-tailoring fields, having things made by your colleagues seems to be good-natured, and community-building. And if it's neither of those things, then it's at least an obligatory part of participating in an industry. A friend runs a brewery, and a very definite part of his job is trying beer from other breweries.

There's a David Berman poem where he says something like, "Feeling pain makes a doctor a better doctor".

Why aren't tailors ordering clothes from other tailors? If they did, would it improve the quality of their work? Of bespoke tailoring in general? Don't tell me about how tailors can't stand each other.

That's a really interesting question. Assuming it's true as a rule,@jefferyd seems to have made up for all of the others.

 

[dieworkwear]

I've always found it kind of interesting that, as far as I've been able to learn, tailors don't patronize other tailors (upstart MTM operations excluded).

Think of nearly any other professional craft-- cooking, art/painting/sculpture, filmmaking, bartending... Chefs dine at colleagues' restaurants, filmmakers buy tickets to other filmmaker's movies. Authors read others' books.

Even in crafts where prices might be out of of the range of the craftspeople, I know of some who trade. Furniture makers exchanging items, artists swapping paintings.

In these non-tailoring fields, having things made by your colleagues seems to be good-natured, and community-building. And if it's neither of those things, then it's at least an obligatory part of participating in an industry. A friend runs a brewery, and a very definite part of his job is trying beer from other breweries.

There's a David Berman poem where he says something like, "Feeling pain makes a doctor a better doctor".

Why aren't tailors ordering clothes from other tailors? If they did, would it improve the quality of their work? Of bespoke tailoring in general? Don't tell me about how tailors can't stand each other. That's just a hurdle.

I know you said don't point to this, but the Neapolitan tailors I know all hate each other. Except for Rubinacci, who they all revere (maybe because the company is a champion for the region, or because they're all in awe at how much money Rubinacci is able to charge). But it doesn't take much to get any one of them to talk about how everyone else is doing things wrong except for them.

A few MTM and brand shops, however, that I know will patron other businesses, but mostly for R&D purposes. So they'll go into a shop and order something, then take it home and dissect it. It's less for collegial reasons (e.g. "I want to support another business") and more about improving their own product.

As for the other tailors, particularly tailor-run shops, I find many just aren't actually interested in style. They're interested in style to some degree, but it's not like how someone on this board would be interested in dressing well and/ or building a wardrobe. Many of the older tailors I know came into the trade because they didn't have other job prospects when they were young or they accidentally fell into it. And now this is just what they do. I think of them more as technicians or craftspeople. The ones I know seem to mostly wear tailored clothing for work (e.g fitting people, selling suits, etc), at which point they're going to wear their own stuff.

I do see some tailors wearing other makers' bespoke shoes. And bespoke shoemakers wearing other companies' bespoke clothes. Some of these are traded in kind (so you make me a pair of shoes, I'll make you a suit). I think it's also done, in part, for advertising reasons, although I haven't done any big survey. When I was at an A&S fitting, all the tailors wore Cleverley. Stephen Hitchcock wears Nicholas Templeman. Templeman wears Solito and Hitchcock. Maurizio Marinella wears Formosa. Etc.

There's that old line either about shoemakers or tailors. Something about how they're not terribly well dressed because they never have time to make something for themselves. Maybe it's also linked to that.

 

[Texasmade]

Most people can't afford a $4k suit......

I’d imagine it’s this reason more than anything. Most tailors and cutters don’t make lots of money. They make enough to live comfortably if they’re good so they can’t waste time ordering an expensive suit from other tailors.

 

[lordsuperb]

I was in London for a few days and my tailor took me to an Arsenal game where I got to tailgate with some of his friends from the Row. They are pretty normal dudes who are into football and beer and could care less about titillating sartorial matters. Kind of how my profession is a means to an end. It may seem cool on the outside but I just want to get my work done and make sure my client is happy then hit the bar on friday night.

 

[lordsuperb]

On another note. Has anyone seen Jeff Bezos' new side piece?

 

[Texasmade]

On another note. Has anyone seen Jeff Bezos' new side piece?

She supposedly leaked a bunch of sexts he sent her to her friends to brag she’s getting banged by the world’s richest man.

 

[Bromley]

Most people can't afford a $4k suit......

I’d imagine it’s this reason more than anything. Most tailors and cutters don’t make lots of money. They make enough to live comfortably if they’re good so they can’t waste time ordering an expensive suit from other tailors.

Pricing for clients is one thing, but a trade of services amongst colleagues is another. I have some music producer friends who exchanged production services they could have easily done for themselves. Their prices for clients may be high, but the cost they incurred for their own exchange was a matter of skill and hours. Same with artist friends.

My own profession is in a craft kind of vein. People in my field frequently trade their (expensive) goods/services amongst colleagues-- goods/services that would be far out of our financial reach if we were not trading.

I think of them more as technicians or craftspeople.

To me, this is all the more reason to experience what other people are doing, how they're making things. "Style" is abstract and maybe difficult to glean anything from in an exchange. But to experience someone else's fitting process, fit, and construction methods... it seems like there would be a lot to learn from there.

I don't mean reverse engineering/corporate espionage behavior. I'm mostly thinking about the way my brewer friend will visit a brewery. He'll notice the lighting, pay attention to the way staff interacts with him, consider menu choices, and of course, sample a bunch of beer. And because the brewing industry in my city seems supportive and fairly tight-knit, my friend is often spending his time at these other breweries with the other brewers. Nobody is worried about someone stealing a technique or recipe. They feel this kind of behavior improves the industry as a whole.

Think of the tailors you've ordered from, how there were some things you liked about one, and some things you preferred from the other. Imagine incorporating that feedback and using it to improve your own tailoring business.

It does seem that tailors in Naples are especially competitive and suspicious of one another (in a way there's something about that I admire, or at least it plays into my romanticization of it all). That seems deep-rooted and unlikely to change anytime soon. But what about London, or elsewhere?

Bespoke tailoring is fundamentally old-fashioned, and the industry has always been dragged against its will into each modern era. Sewing machines were scorned, window displays shunned. But they've come around. What if a supportive, tight-knit community of bespoke tailors is the next step forward? What if tailors continued learning from each other, rather than learning everything from one person, and then working forever in that narrow way?

I will refrain from @ing anyone, but I'd love to hear from any of the tailors who participate in these forums.

 

[dieworkwear]

Pricing for clients is one thing, but a trade of services amongst colleagues is another. I have some music producer friends who exchanged production services they could have easily done for themselves. Their prices for clients may be high, but the cost they incurred for their own exchange was a matter of skill and hours. Same with artist friends.

My own profession is in a craft kind of vein. People in my field frequently trade their (expensive) goods/services amongst colleagues-- goods/services that would be far out of our financial reach if we were not trading.



To me, this is all the more reason to experience what other people are doing, how they're making things. "Style" is abstract and maybe difficult to glean anything from in an exchange. But to experience someone else's fitting process, fit, and construction methods... it seems like there would be a lot to learn from there.

I don't mean reverse engineering/corporate espionage behavior. I'm mostly thinking about the way my brewer friend will visit a brewery. He'll notice the lighting, pay attention to the way staff interacts with him, consider menu choices, and of course, sample a bunch of beer. And because the brewing industry in my city seems supportive and fairly tight-knit, my friend is often spending his time at these other breweries with the other brewers. Nobody is worried about someone stealing a technique or recipe. They feel this kind of behavior improves the industry as a whole.

Think of the tailors you've ordered from, how there were some things you liked about one, and some things you preferred from the other. Imagine incorporating that feedback and using it to improve your own tailoring business.

It does seem that tailors in Naples are especially competitive and suspicious of one another (in a way there's something about that I admire, or at least it plays into my romanticization of it all). That seems deep-rooted and unlikely to change anytime soon. But what about London, or elsewhere?

Bespoke tailoring is fundamentally old-fashioned, and the industry has always been dragged against its will into each modern era. Sewing machines were scorned, window displays shunned. But they've come around. What if a supportive, tight-knit community of bespoke tailors is the next step forward? What if tailors continued learning from each other, rather than learning everything from one person, and then working forever in that narrow way?

I will refrain from @ing anyone, but I'd love to hear from any of the tailors who participate in these forums.

I think there's some sharing of information. I don't know if you've read the book Nothing but the Best by Thomas Girtin (if you haven't, it's a wonderful book). It's about the sociology of bespoke tradespeople in and around London. One of the things that struck me is how all the tailors used to gather around the pubs. Most of these are very normal, working class folk who are just trying to relax at the pub -- like any other normal person, really. But in between the gossip and chit chat, my understanding is that a lot of information is often shared about how to improve some tailoring or cutting technique.

The other thing I've noticed, from having just been a customer, is how different the English and Italians cut. English tailors, I find, are often more precise about the pattern drafting process. Italian tailors, on the other hand, kind of eyeball it and then figure out the rest at the fitting. In other words, there's more of an emphasis on the pattern drafting in the firs method; more emphasis on the fitting and draping at the second.

I've also found that English tailors often enter the trade to learn one very specific skill -- they become a coat maker, trouser maker, coat cutter, trouser cutter, front of house, etc. Italian tailors, on the other hand, learn everything from start to finish, a bit of each step, but in the end focus on one stage. So a young tailor might learn his way up towards making a bespoke coat, but at some point, he just cuts and outhouses everything else (coat making, finishing, etc).

I imagine that must create some barriers between inter-regional learning. So an English tailor will never like doing things the way a Neapolitan tailor does it. An Italian tailor might not see the point of being so exact about pattern drafting if you're going to move and adjust things anyway at the fitting.

But locally, I assume, there's probably some sharing of knowledge through trade associations (like the one formally set up for Savile Row) or a pubs (where tailors still gather, although I hear it's less than before).

 

[romafan]

I was in London for a few days and my tailor took me to an Arsenal game where I got to tailgate with some of his friends from the Row. They are pretty normal dudes who are into football and beer and could care less about titillating sartorial matters. Kind of how my profession is a means to an end. It may seem cool on the outside but I just want to get my work done and make sure my client is happy then hit the bar on friday night.

They don't call it 'tailgating', do they? I assume everyone is meeting in a pub, not surreptitiously downing cans of lager in some car park...