If you go bespoke, do you ever come back?

[tom288]

I recently found a pretty good tailor locally, and Im thinking of getting a shirt or maybe a suit done. The shirts are about 175, and the suits range from 1000-1500 depending on fabric etc...

I was just wondering, those of you who regularly get bespoke shirts/suits, do you ever buy designer clothing anymore, even if it's Attolini or Brioni or another high-end line? Or does it tend to stop at bespoke for you?

 

[Manton]

Shoes? Yes. Shirts and suits? No.

 

[fritzl]

Shoes & Shirts? Nope Suits? very seldom

 

[James Douglas Collection]

I know for me once I started wearing Made to Measure I did not buy and more off the rack suits or shirts. You will love once you have a good tailor. From the price you quoted that is what we call Made to Measure, Bespoke will probably start at about $3500.00 and go up into the area of $15,000 depending on the tailor

 

[thinman]

Yes, there are some things for which I think it's unwise to pay bespoke prices--corduroy and velvet jackets come to mind. I think they tend to show wear too quickly to justify the price of bespoke. I'm also looking for both leather and suede blazer-style jackets and my regular tailors won't work with leather.

Edit: I will not, however, buy RTW shirts after switching to MTM. If I could justify the price of bespoke shirts, I would go that route too, since my MTM shirts still have some fit issues that might be resolved by bespoke. Perhaps I'll plan a vacation trip to NYC and visit Carl.

 

[Freerider]

Originally Posted by Manton

Shoes? Yes. Shirts and suits? No.

 

[tom288]

Well MTM then, Im still in undergrad and can't afford bespoke, nor do I know of a bespoke tailor near me. What are the differences between MTM and Bespoke? How would you compare general MTM vs. Brioni/Attloini/Kiton? I take it bespoke should generally be better than said lines, but it seems MTM is below bespoke.

 

[Vintage Gent]

"Once they've seen Paris, how are you going to keep them down on the farm?"

 

[odoreater]

Originally Posted by James Douglas Collection

I know for me once I started wearing Made to Measure I did not buy and more off the rack suits or shirts. You will love once you have a good tailor. From the price you quoted that is what we call Made to Measure, Bespoke will probably start at about $3500.00 and go up into the area of $15,000 depending on the tailor

There are plenty of local tailors that do bespoke, not MTM for the $1000 - $2000 range. In fact, I'm getting a bespoke suit made from my local tailor right now for $1700. Where are you getting "Bespoke will probably start at about $3500.00" from?

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by tom288

What are the differences between MTM and Bespoke?
From an old AA post:

I would place the differences into three main categories: pattern, fittings, and detailing/cut.

With bespoke, the pattern should be made from scratch, specifically for you. Ideally, the cutter has learned a thing or two over the years, certain tricks that he pioneered, or perhaps things he learned from others and refined for himself through practice and trial and error. Since he sees you and measures you, and then draws your pattern, his pattern will more accurately reflect your body, measurements, shape, idiosyncrasies, etc., than any MTM pattern ever could. I don't want to sell MTM or stock patterns short. It is actually quite hard to devise a pattern system that works well for a variety of men over a range of sizes, and that can be easily modified in the most critical respects. Quite hard. But still, it will not be as faithful to your specific form as a well made pattern designed just for you.

One way to think of it is as follows: the parts of a pattern are two dimensional. They have edges, boundaries or what have you. With bespoke, every single one of those edges is up for grabs. They are all changeable. The can be made longer or shorter, more curved or straighter, angled outward or drawn inward: whatever YOU need for a perfect fit. This is just not possible with MTM. Key modifications are possible, but not everything is on the table for changes.

As to fittings, with MTM you typically get at most one. And this will typically be at a more advanced stage, limiting the extent of possible corrections or modifications. Also, the fittings are done by an in-store tailor who is not the architect of the MTM pattern system.

With bespoke, however, all fittings are done by the cutter who drafted your pattern. He thus has intimate knowledge of that pattern. He should be able to see clearly where adjustment needs to be made, and he will be in an ideal position to adjust correctly. Then he can correct the pattern accordingly, making your next suit that much better from the get-go. This is one reason why sticking with the same bespoke tailor results in progressively better results until the third suit or so.

Also, you will get more fittings, and they will begin at an earlier stage in the process. If you are a first-time customer, you might even get a "muslin" fitting, that is, a proto-suit made from cheap cloth solely to check the pattern. However, hardly anyone does this anymore. At a minimum, the first fitting should be just the body of the coat with the canvas basted in -- no collar, no sleeves. Front-back and left-right balance are checked, as these are much easier to correct at this stage. Also, if they are off, the whole coat will be a botch. Then the tailor will add the collar and make sure it hugs the neck. Then he will baste in the sleeves and check the pitch. All the while, he is making sure that everything is correct, and that any adjustments he makes to one part do not have unforeseen consequences elsewhere. When everything is right, the basting thread is removed and the coat is "made." Then there is a final chance for him to check things over to make absolutely sure that everything is right. This number of fittings is just not offered with MTM. And if it were, the distinction between MTM and bespoke would blur considerably.

Now, the longer you work with one tailor, the less of this he may need to do. He might get your pattern so down, that he can go straight to a forward fitting every time. But that will have been the result of some trial and error in the beginning, with the first few suits. And, again, that trial and error is not really possible with MTM.

Finally, you should be able to get absolutely whatever you want. You should not be limited by set models or options. You should be able to raise or lower the waist and button point, increase or decrease the distance between buttons, widen or narrow the lapels, raise or lower the gorge, widen or narrow the shoulders, flare or cup the skirt, and on and on through myriad details. Yes, you may have to contend with a "house style" and some tailors can be stubborn about things they simply do not want to do. But the range of options in terms of detailing and cut will nonetheless be much wider than with MTM.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by odoreater

Where are you getting "Bespoke will probably start at about $3500.00" from?
That's the base price, or maybe the median, for the better tailors in Manhattan.

 

[Will]

Originally Posted by Manton

Shoes? Yes. Shirts and suits? No.

+1

 

[Concordia]

Originally Posted by odoreater

Where are you getting "Bespoke will probably start at about $3500.00" from?

Replied Manton:
That's the base price, or maybe the median, for the better tailors in Manhattan.

That's about the going London price also--- at least it was before the dollar went the way of Argentina.

Rizzo in Cambridge charges about $2,400 for a suit in Lessers worsted, and maybe $1,800 if you settle for something less exalted. So, one need not subsidize NY/London rents. It is, however, a lot easier to find someone good once you leave the provinces for the big city.

 

[tom288]

I live in Jacksonville, Florida. So, the closest cities of size are Orlando and Atlanta. However, neither is of a reputation by which I would find it beneficial to go there for a tailor. So, I'll stick with what I have here.

I'll need to talk to him more about his services, if it is MTM or actually Bespoke. The last time I was there I did notice quite a few books of Zegna fabrics, any opinion on the quality of Zegna fabrics?

 

[johnapril]

Originally Posted by tom288

I live in Jacksonville, Florida. So, the closest cities of size are Orlando and Atlanta. However, neither is of a reputation by which I would find it beneficial to go there for a tailor. So, I'll stick with what I have here.

I'll need to talk to him more about his services, if it is MTM or actually Bespoke. The last time I was there I did notice quite a few books of Zegna fabrics, any opinion on the quality of Zegna fabrics?

Do more research and broaden your scope of available fabrics, then return to the Zegna book and see how you feel about them.

http://hollandandsherry.com/textileguide/superfine.html