If Urban Outfitters, BR, AA,... can make stuff in the US why can't others?

[KitAkira]

Originally Posted by Razele

Manufacturing = Growth Mauro is pretty much spot on for most if not all points. Watch for U.S Dollar devaluation + PRC RMB revaluation, prices for made in china goods are going to go up, and they are seeking a bigger piece of the luxury pie. Cheap manufacture will move elsewere, as it always has. However if the U.S wants to return to growth you will need more manufacturing.
Unfortunately, we've got a whole untouched continent to prop up before we are forced to build ourselves back up. Also, on the topic of unions, I loved how Boeing just said **** off to the union workers on the line and created a strike-proof system

 

[onion]

Originally Posted by starcrash

Now why is that exactly? It's amazing how many times I've read someone parroting the "unions are evil" b.s. on this forum. I would argue that unions are largely responsible for creating the strong middle class we had in the U.S during most of the 20th century. You may be pleased that unions are nearly extinct now, but how is that working out for the working class? Not so good, the way I see it. I'm a member of a union. I have good health benefits for my family and myself. I get paid a good wage for my work. If I'm asked to work insane hours, which happens frequently in my business (film post-production), I get paid a higher rate. All of these things were negotiated by the union of which I am a member. Am I the "bane of America"? If my job wasn't union, I can guarantee you that I would be paid less and treated unfairly because there are a lot of people who want my job and those who pay my wage are well aware of that fact. Do you really think that unions somehow make workers become lazy and overpaid, as corporate-backed politicians and right-wing pundits have been claiming for the past several decades? That is such nonsense and the root of it is based on conservative ideology.
That's really an over simplification of unions, and obviously only one side of the argument. There are plenty of reasons to dislike current unions in the United States, which is probably why, according to a recent Gallup poll, the majority of Americans dislike them. Edit: spelling

 

[Mauro]

Unions were a very good thing. However with laws they way they are now there is really no place for them and the american worker still gets paid and treated the same.
That was true 30 years ago.

 

[onion]

Originally Posted by Mauro

Unions were a very good thing. However with laws they way they are now there is really no place for them and the american worker still gets paid and treated the same.
That was true 30 years ago.

Agreed.

 

[manofstyle]

The US economy is over-taxed and over-regulated. Also the US dollar benefits from its reserve status. This should change in time, the US will manufacture more goods and have a real economy.

 

[starcrash]

Originally Posted by manofstyle

The US economy is over-taxed and over-regulated. Also the US dollar benefits from its reserve status. This should change in time, the US will manufacture more goods and have a real economy.
Compared to England? That would be surprising.

Which regulations would you like to see removed? The repeal of Glass-Steagall didn't work out so well.

Deregulation often seems like a good idea in theory until economies start collapsing, or in another example of dereg gone bad, we get rolling power blackouts across California. That was a bummer.

The "free market' is an idealistic concept just like socialism is an idealistic concept. In reality, there is no such thing as an absolutely "free" market. A market is created by people setting rules of the game for that particular market. Then it's just a question of how much or how little to regulate which is where we disagree.

Most sensible people, even progressive liberals like myself, don't blame corporations for making as much profit as possible for its shareholders. That's the point. There just needs to be a reasonable amount of regulation so **** doesn't go haywire. Corporations will self-regulate to a certain extent based on free market forces, but they will always ride the razor's edge of the law to maximize profits which can often lead to risky and unsustainable practices as we've seen recently.

 

[starcrash]

Originally Posted by onion

That's really an over simplification of unions, and obviously only one side of the argument.
Agreed.

 

[manofstyle]

Originally Posted by starcrash

Compared to England? That would be surprising.

England is just as bad.

Which regulations would you like to see removed? The repeal of Glass-Steagall didn't work out so well.

You "need" Glass-Steagall because the FDIC exists (which should be abolished)

Deregulation often seems like a good idea in theory until economies start collapsing, or in another example of dereg gone bad, we get rolling power blackouts across California. That was a bummer.

The "free market' is an idealistic concept just like socialism is an idealistic concept. In reality, there is no such thing as an absolutely "free" market. A market is created by people setting rules of the game for that particular market. Then it's just a question of how much or how little to regulate which is where we disagree.

Most sensible people, even progressive liberals like myself, don't blame corporations for making as much profit as possible for its shareholders. That's the point. There just needs to be a reasonable amount of regulation so **** doesn't go haywire. Corporations will self-regulate to a certain extent based on free market forces, but they will always ride the razor's edge of the law to maximize profits which can often lead to risky and unsustainable practices as we've seen recently.

Markets regulate themselves.

Blame the Fed and the govt for all the moral hazard and lax lending.

 

[Another level]

Originally Posted by manofstyle

England is just as bad.
Ah the wonders of Globalisation.

Originally Posted by manofstyle

Markets regulate themselves. Blame the Fed and the govt for all the moral hazard and lax lending.
I'd blame the following: 1) The bankers taking high risks with complicated derivatives and not carryout due diligences about the value of their derivative products. Remember, mistakes are amplified due to margin trading and each time these packages are sold off to other unsuspecting financial institutions. 2) The Credit Rating Agencies for giving the securities backed packages AAA ratings when they did not carryout full due diligences. In other words they gave the bankers a false sense of security by saying that the products were virtually foolproof. 3) The governments around the world for not understanding the complex derivative instruments and not providing a framework to manage the risks of these instruments. Personally, I feel it's time for a new financial world order based on long term value rather than companies chasing short term profits at the expense of poor people around the world. The New Economics Foundation had recently published a report where several professions were rated for their contribution to the economy as a whole. Bankers, Advertising Executives and Tax Advisors were rated as destroying value to the British Economy. While cleaners, child carers, and recycling workers were adding value to the economy. The report gave an example where a banker destroyed £7 to the economy for each £1 he/she had created. http://www.neweconomics.org/sites/ne...A_Bit_Rich.pdf

 

[brad-t]

starcrash keep posting please

 

[KPO89]

I wanna see this continue so I'm throwing my thoughts into the mix

Originally Posted by manofstyle

The US economy is over-taxed and over-regulated. Also the US dollar benefits from its reserve status. This should change in time, the US will manufacture more goods and have a real economy.

Leontief Paradox: I'll simplify if for you so that you don't have to google it.

The Leontief Paradox states that as a countries economy grows the labor production of that country continually diminishes. This occurs based on the overall nature of the economic index. Education levels become higher and people are often worth more.

Originally Posted by starcrash

The "free market' is an idealistic concept just like socialism is an idealistic concept. In reality, there is no such thing as an absolutely "free" market. A market is created by people setting rules of the game for that particular market. Then it's just a question of how much or how little to regulate which is where we disagree.

Most sensible people, even progressive liberals like myself, don't blame corporations for making as much profit as possible for its shareholders. That's the point. There just needs to be a reasonable amount of regulation so **** doesn't go haywire. Corporations will self-regulate to a certain extent based on free market forces, but they will always ride the razor's edge of the law to maximize profits which can often lead to risky and unsustainable practices as we've seen recently.

I agree completely. You've had some good thoughts...

As to the labor unions: I would just like to say that I don't believe they are a bad thing but that their power has been abused. The laborers need protection but so do the corporations. I've worked in factories before and gotten paid ****. I put together heavy machinery and got $8 an hour. Tell me why I should get $8 an hour there when in Ford plants people are getting paid upwards of $30 an hour to do similar work? This course of action has played a big part in the down fall of American auto manufactures and I believe this is why most conservatives attach such a stigma to the Union. Unions like corporations need the regulation.

 

[Class54]

Finally some interesting and intelligent posts in this thread. Let's put another spin on this topic:

The average manufacturing job here in the U.S. is non-union and pays approximately $8-$12 for entry-level, non-skilled labor. For the sake of argument let's say a worker earns a 3% pay raise every year capped at either (a up to $5 more than your starting hourly or b) up to 10 years.

My question Knowing nothing else regarding economics or the nature of the job, who on this forum is actually willing to work in this type of environment?

Another question: Who here has ever actually worked a factory or manufacturing job before?

 

[manofstyle]

Originally Posted by Another level

I'd blame the following:

1) The bankers taking high risks with complicated derivatives and not carryout due diligences about the value of their derivative products. Remember, mistakes are amplified due to margin trading and each time these packages are sold off to other unsuspecting financial institutions.

2) The Credit Rating Agencies for giving the securities backed packages AAA ratings when they did not carryout full due diligences. In other words they gave the bankers a false sense of security by saying that the products were virtually foolproof.

3) The governments around the world for not understanding the complex derivative instruments and not providing a framework to manage the risks of these instruments.

Personally, I feel it's time for a new financial world order based on long term value rather than companies chasing short term profits at the expense of poor people around the world. The New Economics Foundation had recently published a report where several professions were rated for their contribution to the economy as a whole. Bankers, Advertising Executives and Tax Advisors were rated as destroying value to the British Economy. While cleaners, child carers, and recycling workers were adding value to the economy. The report gave an example where a banker destroyed £7 to the economy for each £1 he/she had created.

http://www.neweconomics.org/sites/ne...A_Bit_Rich.pdf

I agree overall but in the end we don't need a new order. We just need to allow the companies which screwed up to go bust, that's how risk-reward-failure is supposed to work.

 

[Vintage Gent]

Originally Posted by ppllzz

some rlpl cashmere sweaters are made in china... i agree that nothing else is made in china though, even my sweatpants and half-zip fleece from rlpl is made in italy.

Last weekend, I came across some RLPL casual shirts that were made in China, in addition to a few RLPL sweaters.