I'd Forgotten What It Was Like to Have Intelligent, Articulate Leaders

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Augusto86, Dec 3, 2007.

  1. itsstillmatt

    itsstillmatt The Liberator Dubiously Honored

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    Intelligent leadership is overrated. So is effective leadership.
     


  2. v0rtex

    v0rtex Senior member

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    Say what you will about his moral failings or his politics, that man knows how to speak and get an idea across. I haven't seen a political speech that good in person in my lifetime.
    I saw him speak along similar lines at last year's CTIA conference (big telecoms industry trade show) and was also impressed. He appeared with Bush Sr who was also a great speaker with a surprisingly sharp sense of humor. As someone who's grown up in an age where politics is all about fear rather than idealism and the most you ever hear from politicans directly is a 30 second soundbite on the news, it was absolutely inspiring to see such great orators in person giving a compelling argument for what they believed would make a better world, especially considering their prior positions on opposite sides of the political spectrum. I was living in the UK at the time of Clinton's presidency and he was incredibly popular in Europe, there was a lot of good feeling towards America in those times. It's a shame that Bush Jr managed to ruin all that good will so quickly (along with everything else in this country).
     


  3. FLMountainMan

    FLMountainMan White Hispanic

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    President Clinton in my humble opinion, was one of the best presidents in the history of the United States. Say what you will about his morality (or apparent lack thereof) but purely politically, there is no doubt in my mind that he goes down as one of the best. Not to mention the entire last two years of his presidency were useless, b/c everybody was too caught up in the Lewinsky thing to actually get any work done. Clinton cared about the environment, the world, the United States, & it's citizens, and what more could you ask for?

    I believe one of the reasons Clinton was so great a president was b/c of Congress being held in the majority by the opposite party. I don't believe it matters whether it's Clinton and a Republican Congress or whether it is a Republican with a Democrat Congress, there needs to be that separation. For the beginning of Bush's presidency, he had majority Republican Congress, and look what happened as a result. Lately, we've had the luck of having a Democrat Congress and a Republican President, but sadly the Congress have been far too timid to make any positive change.

    Obviously, I think that Clinton was a better president than Bush, but more importantly, I believe that there must always be that separation of one party having the Presidency and the other party have control of Congress. One might say that in that position, nothing would ever get done, but I feel that it is quite the contrary. With the Executive branch and the Legislative branch being on polar opposites of the political spectrum, I believe the only laws that will get passed will be the ones that those two sides can come together on, which is best for the American people.

    Better yet would be to get a candidate who understands that the world is not about politics, but about people. One who understands that each party cannot fight for what they think is right, but they must come together to work toward the future that we all will share.

    You can ask a Republican what he wants to see the United States like in 15 years and you will get answer "A". You can ask a Democrat the same question and you will get answer "A" as well. 15 years down the road, we all want the same things for our country, our children, and our futures. The only difference is that we have different ways of getting there.


    I strongly agree with the first part of your statement - balance is crucial for an effective presidency. A few of Clinton's major accomplishments came from Congress (welfare-to-work, etc.).

    The last part I disagree with on specifics. There are a variety of things that republicans & democrats would disagree with on where we want America to be in 15 years, whether it be universal health care, English as the official language, gay marriage, membership in Kyoto, etc... People disagree, but as long as they are allowed to argue it, I think America's great.

    Who's the best communicator on the Republican slate? On the current Democratic slate? I think Obama is pretty good at orating (not so great at debating) and I think that Thompson, when motivated, is good.
     


  4. itsstillmatt

    itsstillmatt The Liberator Dubiously Honored

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    I think America's great.

    You are obviously just a patriotic, minachean America firster. [​IMG]
     


  5. Augusto86

    Augusto86 Sean Penn's Mexican love child

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    Intelligent leadership is overrated. So is effective leadership.

    [​IMG]
     


  6. kwilkinson

    kwilkinson Having a Ball

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    The last part I disagree with on specifics. There are a variety of things that republicans & democrats would disagree with on where we want America to be in 15 years, whether it be universal health care, English as the official language, gay marriage, membership in Kyoto, etc... People disagree, but as long as they are allowed to argue it, I think America's great.
    I wasn't thinking along these lines... I was more thinking of an idealistic America, more general things such as a safer world for our children to grow up in, the ability to still live with the American dream, but after reading your post I think i need to reevaluate my thoughts about this.


    Who's the best communicator on the Republican slate? On the current Democratic slate? I think Obama is pretty good at orating (not so great at debating) and I think that Thompson, when motivated, is good.

    I think that without a doubt Obama is the best communicator (or only communicator for that matter) on the Democratic slate. I've read 2 of his books and many of his speeches. I actually met him a couple times... a great guy!
    He's the best orator i've heard in a good time... and being only 20, he's the best orator i've known since my interest in politics began. Read this speech http://www.rollingstone.com/national...rgency-of-now/ or look up "the fierce urgency of now" on youtube. It is incredible.

    I think thompson is good with communicating, but then again of course he is. He used to be an actor, so it's natural that he is good with a camera and communicating different things. I like Huckabee if I have to choose a Republican though.
     


  7. Thomas

    Thomas Senior member

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    Real Texan = mentally retarded?

    Jon.


    No, just very drunk.

    You may not be aware of this, but when Bush ran for governor, he had three issues: education, education, and education. I'm working from memory here so please forgive any lapses, but it was a one-note campaign that resonated with the state's hispanic population who wanted a chance at a better life. All he had to do was stay on message, which was...education.

    When you have one issue like that - it's easy to stay focused.

    When you suddenly have a war (no experience there), an economy consisting of more than oil and pork rinds, and 49 states that are not Texas, of course he sounds like an idiot. That's too much for him to process.
     


  8. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    You may not be aware of this, but when Bush ran for governor, he had three issues: education, education, and education. I'm working from memory here so please forgive any lapses, but it was a one-note campaign that resonated with the state's hispanic population who wanted a chance at a better life. All he had to do was stay on message, which was...education.

    When you have one issue like that - it's easy to stay focused.

    When you suddenly have a war (no experience there), an economy consisting of more than oil and pork rinds, and 49 states that are not Texas, of course he sounds like an idiot. That's too much for him to process.


    In other words: not the best person to be POTUS.

    Jon.
     


  9. Thomas

    Thomas Senior member

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    In other words: not the best person to be POTUS.

    Jon.


    When you've got a two-dog race, the winner is still a dog.
     


  10. Tyto

    Tyto Senior member

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    When you've got a two-dog race, the winner is still a dog.

    Great line. I'm using it.
     


  11. FLMountainMan

    FLMountainMan White Hispanic

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    In other words: not the best person to be POTUS.

    Jon.


    Yeah....well....18% of Americans would beg to differ.
     


  12. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    When you've got a two-dog race, the winner is still a dog.

    That's a really unfair comparison, Kerry is quite a bit smarter than Bush, and frankly could have been a better President. But, yes in a country of close to (or over by now?) 300 million people if those two are the best we can do I am saddened and frightened all at once.

    Where are the Cato's, and the Cicero's, and the Pericles?

    Jon.
     


  13. itsstillmatt

    itsstillmatt The Liberator Dubiously Honored

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    That's a really unfair comparison, Kerry is quite a bit smarter than Bush, and frankly could have been a better President. But, yes in a country of close to (or over by now?) 300 million people if those two are the best we can do I am saddened and frightened all at once.

    Where are the Cato's, and the Cicero's, and the Pericles?

    Jon.


    How did you divine this bit of "knowledge"? All the information available says otherwise.
     


  14. Arethusa

    Arethusa Senior member

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    That’s a really unfair comparison, Kerry is quite a bit smarter than Bush, and frankly could have been a better President. But, yes in a country of close to (or over by now?) 300 million people if those two are the best we can do I am saddened and frightened all at once. Where are the Cato’s, and the Cicero’s, and the Pericles? Jon.
    Well, we have the Cato Institute. That's kind of like the same thing.
     


  15. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    How did you divine this bit of "knowledge"? All the information available says otherwise.

    What information is that?

    And I've heard them both speak, and Kerry definitely sounds smarter and better coordinated. At least he is able to coherently put two sentences together.

    Jon.
     


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