I think Kabbaz prices are probably worth it.

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by GQgeek, Mar 18, 2006.

  1. GQgeek

    GQgeek Senior member

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    Does anyone else feel extreme frustration with trying to get a properly fitted shirt?

    My first attempt was Jantzen. The price was irresistable but the customer service was too bad for me to deal with, even at those cheap prices. I never did get a shirt from them.

    After trying to get shirts out of jantzen for a few months, I said screw it and ordered a number of "bespoke" shirts at $400 each. 3 months later I'm no closer to a properly fitting shirt than I was when I started the process. What I've received so far have been butchers' jobs (Alex's words-used in the context of what happens when you try and re-cut an armhole) with sloppy detailing. I'm sooo sick of everyone trying to cut corners all the time.

    If I weren't already stretching at $400 a shirt I'd gladly pay the extra for Kabbaz, since by all accounts you get what you pay for, and he won't let you leave without a perfect shirt, which is a completely different philosophy from what most people trying to sell you stuff adhere to.

    I'm starting to feel like the only way I'm ever going to get a shirt that fits it to fly to London, Naples, or NYC.
     


  2. edmorel

    edmorel Quality Seller!! Dubiously Honored

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    At $400 and up a shirt, you should not have to settle for anything less than perfect. I have been lucky enough to be around many people who get their attire bespoke and I know for a fact that you do not have to go up to $600-700 a shirt to get what you are looking for. It sounds like you have not found the right shirtmaker yet and I would ask around, obviously on this forum, for a good guy in your area. A trip to NYC would also be worth your while.
     


  3. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    I don't know if Kabbaz's shirts are "worth it" or even if that can be answered in an objective, non-personal way. Certainly, I don't like paying his prices, which is why I order very few shirts from him.

    However, I can say this: I have tried shirtmakers in New York, Los Angeles, Hong Kong, London, Paris and Italy and none has made me a shirt as good as Kabbaz's. His shirts fit better, are made better, hold up better, and look better, in my opinion. I wish I could pay less for the same quality, but I don't know where to go.
     


  4. Tomasso

    Tomasso Senior member

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    The hardest part of the MTM/Bespoke process is creating the template(last/ pattern/measurements) but once that's accomplished the rest is a breeze(unless your dimensions change). I don't see how this can be done properly(achieving a perfect fit) by mail as in the case of Jantzen. Easy access to the maker is required until the proper fit is established, then subsequent orders may be made by phone/mail.

    Once you have a shirt that fits you perfectly, then you could probably have a maker such as Jantzen copy that shirt(assuming they are agreeable) and you would end up with well fitting shirt at a great price.
     


  5. Film Noir Buff

    Film Noir Buff Senior member

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  6. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    Once you have a shirt that fits you perfectly, then you could probably have a maker such as Jantzen copy that shirt(assuming they are agreeable) and you would end up with well fitting shirt at a great price.
    A certain rare shy elusive poster of the genus bresciani did the inverse with Bugelli (had them copy a Jantzen shirt).[​IMG]
     


  7. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    A certain rare shy elusive poster of the genus bresciani did the inverse with Bugelli (had them copy a Jantzen shirt).[​IMG]
    A campaign replete with British brass cornered mahogany travel furniture, sterling whiskey sets, and bibulous companions shall be attempted.
     


  8. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    A campaign replete with British brass cornered mahogany travel furniture, sterling whiskey sets, and bibulous companions shall be attempted.
    Surely you jest. For the Philly jungle one must seek hunting trunks from Saillard or Goyard! Gastine Renette shotguns, of course, and you will likely be wearing fuchsia and lime tweeds from Mettez, I imagine?
     


  9. brescd01

    brescd01 Senior member

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    Before I end up as a trophy over someone's fireplace, let me say this:

    1) The Jantzens still fit better. Bugelli fiddled when he should not have.

    2) You must either be deformed or very fussy. I suspect the latter. The first thing you have to do is stop spending money and go back to Jantzen or Land's End and figure out what a perfect-fitting shirt's measurements are. This may be difficult for the shirtmakers but it is not difficult for you, if you are patient. Once you have figured out what a perfect-fitting shirt's measurements are and you can show this to a shirtmaker, I do not think things would be as difficult.

    3) Alternatively, you could have the AK go through this process for you with one shirt. I am sure there are lots of little things the AK would criticize in my Jantzen shirts, for instance, but I don't care because they are comfortable for me and look fine. However, I have been curious recently about collars and AK's is famous, and I am sure Jantzen is a non-starter in this regard. I would always suggest Jantzen as a great deal, but I doubt they are the best in any specific category. To be fair, I have not tried all of Jantzen's collar options and I would like to.
     


  10. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    (To the tune of "You're The Best", from The Karate Kid and "South Park": )

    Is the Bresch,
    Around?
    Nothing's ever gonna keep him down!
    He's the Bresch!
    Nothing's ever gonna keep him dow-ow-ow-ow-own!!!!
     


  11. brescd01

    brescd01 Senior member

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    RJMan, where is my damned magazine?
     


  12. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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    The cat ate it.
     


  13. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    RJMan, where is my damned magazine?
    Maybe it's doing time in the RJ bathroom before I send it on [​IMG].

    [EDIT:] Hey Bresch, when do I get an introduction to your tailor in Bucuresti, Dracula or whatever his name is?

    The cat ate it.
    If anything, he's more likely to have puked on it.
     


  14. Nantucket Red

    Nantucket Red "Mr. Fashionista"

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    I recently had shirts made for me at BB, which are a 1000% improvement over my Land's End shirts for fit, finish and comfort. I was thinking of sending one to be copied by Jantzen in order to get a good rotation of shirts cheaply. Since everybody seems to have a different experience of Jantzen, I guess I'll have to try my luck.

    Perhaps fit is a relative thing. I used to think my Land's End shirts fit fine until I had to wear them all day every day. My BB shirts have really opened my eyes to what good fit can be like, but I'm sure this is only relative too and consider it an intermediate step. No doubt, a Kabbaz shirt would represent yet another shirting epiphany. Unfortunately, spending the necessary amount of time in New York would effectively double the price.
     


  15. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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    In a way yes; in a way, no. The shirtmaker properly adhering to the shape of your body {A} is an absolute. The shirtmaker following your fullness, drape, and detail requests {B} can be somewhat relative.

    S/he should be able to accomplish {A}, the harder component, through a series of fittings. Even if a sample shirt is not part of the maker's process, making shirts one at a time and improving the pattern between each rendition is an alternative.
    S/he may have more difficulty, however, understanding the more nebulous concept {B} of translating your verbal expression into a concomitant physical reality.

    A sure way to have Jantzen accurately copy your BB is to take the shirt apart at the seams in order that they might simply trace the pattern.

    Unless, of course, you were to order 40-50 shirts in which case it would add but a miniscule %age to each shirt. [​IMG]
     


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