• I'm happy to introduce the Styleforum Happy Hour, our brand new podcast featuring lively discussion about menswear and the fashion industry. In the inaugural edition, a discussion of what's going on in retail today. Please check it out on the Journal. All episodes will be also be available soon on your favorite podcast platform.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

I think I'm being lowballed, help me negotiate! (Special flower thread)

Eason

Bicurious Racist
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
14,670
Reaction score
1,905
So, I received an offer from an International School in Singapore this evening. I was very excited about this job and moving there this year until I saw their offer which was significantly below my expectations. First, let me share the text of the email I received with the details (errors SIC):
Dear xxxxxx How are you doing? We are send you our EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT letter. Please check attached file for Terms & Condition and Confirm your decision as to whether or not the Agreement. Please decide and Let us know as soon as possible. we have Several Teacher's to Consider. Thank you Regards, xxxxxx
Here is the offer: 4000 SGD per month, with an annual increment of 1200 SGD. No housing, medical "insurance" is simply $20 sgd 3/x a month. No flights included. Here are the facts/suppositions: I was offered a job with the British Council in a language center (which is a bit below the level of international schools in Sg) for 4500 SGD. It included full British Medical Insurance, flights to/back from SG home paid for. There were four other candidates interviewed. I was the only candidate interviewed who has a B.S. in a Science and is capable of teaching Science in addition to English. I am moderately experienced with 5 years in education, and I currently lecture at an International College near Hong Kong. 5200 sounds okay after a year, but I think 4000 is a kick to the bollocks. Any ideas on how I should approach negotiating this? I think 5000 is the absolute minimum I could accept to move to SG for a job. I would want them to up the salary to 5k and include some kind of relocation coverage. Halp, plz thanks.
 

ginlimetonic

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
786
Reaction score
1
annual increment of ~27% salary growth sounds very stupid...
this means the starting salary is way too low.

They make it sound like a 'take it or leave it', as we have other candidates to consider.

negotiate a better salary. or go to the other job which has better benefits.
 

globetrotter

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
Sep 28, 2004
Messages
20,607
Reaction score
400
good luck. I have no idea how teaching works, but this does sound like they are trying to squeeze you.
 

Eason

Bicurious Racist
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
14,670
Reaction score
1,905
I sent her back this email:
Dear Miss xxxx,

Thank you for sending the offer, I have recieved it. I will let you know what I think after I have evaluated the cost of living in Singapore as compared to Zhu Hai, China.

Best regards,
xxxxx
I don't plan on replying either way for two days.

ginlimetonic: the question is, how do I go about successfully negotiating the salary with a person like that via email?
Just tell them straight up "Your offer is significantly less than what I have researched to be the minimum amount for an ex-patriot to live Singapore, and is also lacking standard compensation for flight/finding housing expenses and full medical coverage."?

I was also considering playing a little harder back with something like. "In contrast to my offer from the British Council, which is not only paying more per month, but also offering full medical coverage, financial assistance in locating an apartment, and reimbursing flights, I believe I am entitled to negotiate for a starting salary of at least 5000 SGD/month."
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2005
Messages
11,179
Reaction score
114
i would neither mention where the other offer is, nor use words like 'entitled'.

If the other offer is better, take it instead, and politely decline this 'opportunity'.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2005
Messages
11,179
Reaction score
114
Originally Posted by ginlimetonic
annual increment of ~27% salary growth sounds very stupid...
kinda....Singapore's economy grew just under 15% last year (basically off the back of two casino openings) and a population boom fueled by opening the doors to foreign workers. In spite of this, the country managed to keep its CPI to 3 percent in 2010, although anecdotally, inflation is already going crazy and it's taking time for the official numbers to catch up. Maybe some basket bias in their measurement systems.... So, yes, 27 percent sounds like a big leap, but in real term purchasing power 2011-2012, it may not be as high as it sounds.
 

Eason

Bicurious Racist
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
14,670
Reaction score
1,905
Originally Posted by Matt
i would neither mention where the other offer is, nor use words like 'entitled'.

If the other offer is better, take it instead, and politely decline this 'opportunity'.


Well, I don't want the other offer because ultimately it also wasn't enough money for me.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2005
Messages
11,179
Reaction score
114
then keep lookin' kid...
 

cross22

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
4,548
Reaction score
983
"Dear xxx,

Unfortunately I am not able to accept this offer at this time despite my desire to work for "school". The proposed salary and benefits are significantly below my current position and qualifications. I need a starting salary of $xxx before I can accept the offer.

Thanks"

I have no clue about cultural norms around offers and negotiating in Singapore so grain of salt, etc.
 

Piobaire

Not left of center?
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
60,022
Reaction score
22,674
Dear XXX,

As much as it shames me to admit, I could not possibly accept your kindly offer with this compensation package. While I would much prefer to work for your organization, another offer local to you has come in, and it offers a higher wage and includes the benefits of <...> Unless you could see fit to raise my starting wage to XXX and include A,B,C in way of benefits, I am afraid I must accept the terms of the other organization.

Something like that. You're contrite you can't take the offer of the "obviously" better organization and the "inferior" one is offering you more.
 

aj_del

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2009
Messages
6,964
Reaction score
127
Though the gist of the 2 above is more or less the same, the first one seems too curt and the second one too groveling.

Though I dont know to what extent the person who wrote the offer letter in the OP would understand the difference between the two.
 

cross22

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
4,548
Reaction score
983
Originally Posted by Piobaire
Dear XXX,

As much as it shames me to admit, I could not possibly accept your kindly offer with this compensation package. While I would much prefer to work for your organization, another offer local to you has come in, and it offers a higher wage and includes the benefits of <...> Unless you could see fit to raise my starting wage to XXX and include A,B,C in way of benefits, I am afraid I must accept the terms of the other organization.

Something like that. You're contrite you can't take the offer of the "obviously" better organization and the "inferior" one is offering you more.


Real interesting. I have worked hard over the years to cut out all the unnecessary words out of my written correspondence. But yours does look warmer than mine and probably more appealing especially to a foreign audience.
 

Piobaire

Not left of center?
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
60,022
Reaction score
22,674
Originally Posted by cross22
Real interesting. I have worked hard over the years to cut out all the unnecessary words out of my written correspondence. But yours does look warmer than mine and probably more appealing especially to a foreign audience.

Thanks. Yeah, I was trying to think how it would appeal over there, not in my world. Then again, I could be way, way off the mark.
 

Valor

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
836
Reaction score
0
Originally Posted by Eason

Just tell them straight up "Your offer is significantly less than what I have researched to be the minimum amount for an ex-patriot to live Singapore


The word is expatriate, ex-patriot is something different, and you teach english?


Originally Posted by Eason
I was also considering playing a little harder back with something like. "In contrast to my offer from the British Council, which is not only paying more per month, but also offering full medical coverage, financial assistance in locating an apartment, and reimbursing flights, I believe I am entitled to negotiate for a starting salary of at least 5000 SGD/month."

This might work, I'm not sure how salary negotiations work in Singapore culturally, but using counteroffer is pretty standard in most places.
 

Eason

Bicurious Racist
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
14,670
Reaction score
1,905
Thanks for the suggestions, all. Pio, I like yours. There may be a scheduling conflict that would prevent me from working there anyway... sigh, and here I was so happy after looking for a job in a decent place for the last fucking 1.5 years.
 

Featured Sponsor

How many pairs of shoes do you own?

  • 1 - 4

    Votes: 16 3.2%
  • 5 - 10

    Votes: 88 17.4%
  • 11 - 20

    Votes: 161 31.8%
  • 21 - 30

    Votes: 81 16.0%
  • 31 - 40

    Votes: 48 9.5%
  • 41 - 50

    Votes: 31 6.1%
  • 51 - 60

    Votes: 18 3.6%
  • 61 - 70

    Votes: 11 2.2%
  • 71 - 80

    Votes: 13 2.6%
  • 81 - 90

    Votes: 4 0.8%
  • 91 - 100

    Votes: 4 0.8%
  • 100+

    Votes: 31 6.1%

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
427,620
Messages
9,202,146
Members
193,226
Latest member
tung1998ndvn

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Top