I have a jean...(The Ultimate Jean Thread For Beginners) - ask questions here.

[KitAkira]

Originally Posted by DECEMBER

Ok I tend to wear my jeans, 3 inches below belly button, somewhere near true waist. How low are you suppose to wear jeans with a 9 inch rise? But it's not like I could wear them any lower because I tried pulling them lower but they always ride back up. I guess I've been buying the wrong waist size for low rise jeans or somethin. Is 9 inch considered low-rise? Thing is I hate low-rise and most jeans are 9 inch rise or less these days
Then buy higher rise, obviously that isn't working for you.

 

[IIIrd Icon]

Originally Posted by tigerFormula

To mlyngard and Whodini:

First of all, I think we can agree that Gap jeans are well contructed in terms of details, stitching, etc. Plain and simple tailored belt loops and hidden rivets are something you don't find in <$100 pairs of jeans, you cannot argue with that. I would definitely say these are better contructed than your average pair of sub $100 jeans, but the denim does not compare with denim at higher price points. I dislike that Gap uses selvage as their selling point and that the denim is probably terrible, but I would say those are good jeans in general.

But good also comes down to fit. Gap jeans don't have a great cut, So I would take APC over Gap, but if there was a pair of Gap that was the exact same cut as the APC NS and had the Gap construction, I would take Gap.

Also, good contruction is to an certain extent. It isn't fair to say because Warehouse jeans are 3x the price of Gap jeans means the construction is 3x better. It doesn't really work in a directly proportional way like that.


I've learned that just because things are selvage, doesn't mean the denim is of good quality. MY mom has a couple table cloths of selvage batik fabrics that we bought in Cambodia, but the cotton quality is terrible.
there's really no argument here, just line of thought coming from different directions. selvedge does not determine the quality of denim__ it's just that the best quality denim that we see around in the forums happen to have selvedge.

before the advent of forums [eg, SF, SuFu, MN, etc.] you have to choose between a great fit or a great denim ... unless a "great fit" for you is a repro. because of growing market demands, we can now "have our cake and eat it, too". before i digress even further, a quality denim jeans [for me] is the total package. it's the denim, craftsmanship, and fit. as a denim aficionado, cost comes secondary to quality. i'd rather have 2 pairs of [quality] jeans that i truly appreciate, than 2 dozens that are just meh.

as for what constitute a quality denim? peruse through volumes of evo photos at the forums, you'll find out why certain brands get the reputation. [check out my sig] IMO, the quality denim gets better with age. the element of time is what most ppl fail to factor in. i mean, how can you put a value to the work & premium time put into the evolution of [eg, well worn pair of Warehouse]? in the 90's japanese tourists used to comb 2nd hand stores on Melrose for vintage 501's for a price triple their original retail. why? cuz you can't bring back time.

 

[mlyngard]

This is a really interesting discussion...makes me glad I'm not the only one analyzing **** like this.

Originally Posted by whodini

I thought the denim looked sweet and the jeans looked really sharp...

At $98, you're getting jeans that will probably last about as long as Levi's and will fit slightly better. It'd be a stretch to combine those two factors and call them "very good jeans."

Smartarse ;-)

See, based on pictures alone, those jeans look good. But that's the magic element in a really good pair of jeans; the total quality is often more than the sum of it's parts. Conversely, bad jeans can have all the 'right' elements, but miss something essential...like fit or, more importantly, the denim character.

I'd have to have a pair of jeans in my hands and try them on to really see if all those things come together. I can't judge those things from just pictures, and definitely not by price alone.

That's really where the 'soul' in a pair of jeans lies...

Originally Posted by tigerFormula

To mlyngard and Whodini:
Also, good contruction is to an certain extent. It isn't fair to say because Warehouse jeans are 3x the price of Gap jeans means the construction is 3x better. It doesn't really work in a directly proportional way like that.


Man, that really says a lot. I see it as a sliding scale, and not as directly proportional also. Plus, assuming at least a +/- 100% markup to market, you're really buying a $40 pair of Gap and a $125 pair of Warehouse, which puts things into perspective. My eyes have become more tuned into what jeans are priced at the top of their respective price-point, and which are lower. I've seen significant jumps in quality from a $245 pair to a $280 pair. It's interesting.

Originally Posted by whodini

Repro companies usually don't do tailored belt loops because, guess what, Levi's didn't. Like the rivets, it's another detail that matters more to the enthusiasts and designers themselves. Who knows who designed Gap's jeans or where they stole, er, got their inspiration from.


That's totally true. To the educated buyer, these subtle and hidden details are important. Gap jeans are constructed well enough but lack 'soul' to me because their designs and details are stolen or derivative, and their denim is unimaginitive, which may not be visible to anyone else, but mean something to me.

 

[mlyngard]

Originally Posted by DECEMBER

Ok I tend to wear my jeans, 3 inches below belly button, somewhere near true waist.
How low are you suppose to wear jeans with a 9 inch rise?

But it's not like I could wear them any lower because I tried pulling them lower but they always ride back up.

I guess I've been buying the wrong waist size for low rise jeans or somethin. Is 9 inch considered low-rise? Thing is I hate low-rise and most jeans are 9 inch rise or less these days

December - most 'low rise' jeans will ususally be 10" rise and under after shrink (depending on your size).

I think you'll find that there are tons of jeans with more than a 10" rise out there. Note: expect that many shrink-to-fit jeans will loose a half inch in rise when shrunk.

Alternately, consider sizing slightly larger on low-rise so the jeans stay low and don't insist on riding higher because the waist is too slim for the hip location at which they should be worn.

 

[breakz]

Originally Posted by mlyngard

That's totally true. To the educated buyer, these subtle and hidden details are important. Gap jeans are constructed well enough but lack 'soul' to me because their designs and details are stolen or derivative, and their denim is unimaginitive, which may not be visible to anyone else, but mean something to me.

Really interested in this concept of "soul" in a pair of jeans. Would you say repro cuts lack soul bc they're simply remakes of traditional cuts?

 

[IIIrd Icon]

Originally Posted by breakz

Really interested in this concept of "soul" in a pair of jeans. Would you say repro cuts lack soul bc they're simply remakes of traditional cuts?
lol. "soul" is a bit meta, but you got to give him credit for passion.

 

[mlyngard]

Originally Posted by breakz

Really interested in this concept of "soul" in a pair of jeans. Would you say repro cuts lack soul bc they're simply remakes of traditional cuts?

Oh, man, my Evisu Lot 1 are a repro cut, and have gobs of soul. I think in the 'fit' catagory, any fit that tries to be too many things loses soul. If a design takes a cut just to the edge of an idea (i.e. slim low-rise/vintage repro, heavyweight straight), without becoming extreme or silly, or landing in 'trendy and so-yesterday' territory, I appreciate it.

I think many of the heritage/repro cuts usually have 'it'. Especially the ones done by the truly devoted 'big daddys' (Studio D', Evisu, Sugar Cane, etc, Samurai...)

 

[mlyngard]

Originally Posted by IIIrd Icon

lol. "soul" is a bit meta, but you got to give him credit for passion.

Give a guy some slack, I was an art student...

;-)

 

[whodini]

Originally Posted by mlyngard

Give a guy some slack, I was an art student...

;-)
I had you pegged as "emo." Still sort of do.

 

[IIIrd Icon]

^that explains the need to express

 

[breakz]

Originally Posted by IIIrd Icon

^that explains the need to express

Too true, reminds me of my brother

Originally Posted by mlyngard

Oh, man, my Evisu Lot 1 are a repro cut, and have gobs of soul. I think in the 'fit' catagory, any fit that tries to be too many things loses soul. If a design takes a cut just to the edge of an idea (i.e. slim low-rise/vintage repro, heavyweight straight), without becoming extreme or silly, or landing in 'trendy and so-yesterday' territory, I appreciate it.

I think many of the heritage/repro cuts usually have 'it'. Especially the ones done by the truly devoted 'big daddys' (Studio D', Evisu, Sugar Cane, etc, Samurai...)

That's interesting. What about quality of denim? That was an issue you raised with the Gap jeans.

(btw, no troll--honest!)

 

[whodini]

Originally Posted by breakz

That's interesting. What about quality of denim? That was an issue you raised with the Gap jeans.
Can't you read? He said he thought Gap's denim looked sweet.

Sweet, bro. Sweet.

 

[breakz]

Originally Posted by whodini

Can't you read? He said he thought Gap's denim looked sweet.

Sweet, bro. Sweet.

No, I'm referring to the soul comment wrt denim. He mentioned repro fit, but not quality of denim.

 

[mlyngard]

Originally Posted by whodini

I had you pegged as "emo."

Still sort of do.

'Emo' was never my gig. Hence my use of 'sweet' ;-)

It was pretty righteous too.

(actually, I'd say GetSmart's themesong is pretty close to my style, on the most part, less the swing dancing...)

Originally Posted by breakz

No, I'm referring to the soul comment wrt denim. He mentioned repro fit, but not quality of denim.

I think anyone devoted enough to make a really thoughtful vintage repro is gonna do it justice with some sweet, righteous denim, brah.

 

[breakz]

Originally Posted by mlyngard

I think anyone devoted enough to make a really thoughtful vintage repro is gonna do it justice with some sweet, righteous denim, brah.

Thanks broski. Brews are on me when you're in my neck of the woods!