I have a 30'' waist, so taking into account vanity of 2, that puts me at 28 (normal jeans) I don't know what "normal" jeans you're wearing, but most jeans are not as vanity sized as APCs. I'm a 30" waist too and most commonly wear size 30, because believe it or not, size 30 pants are usually made for a 30" waist. So if you typically wear 28, you're either measuring your waist incorrectly or have somehow gone your whole life having only experienced vanity sized pants. Anyway, you may want to try Petit Standards. They are basically a slimmed down NS, and not as tight as NCs.