I have a jean...(The Ultimate Jean Thread For Beginners) - ask questions here.

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by whodini, Jan 28, 2008.

  1. whodini

    whodini Conan OOOOOOO"BRIEN!

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    APC denim quality is alright at best, it's build quality suffers from being mass produced in China.
    Tunisia.
    It's big selling point is its cuts (NC, PS are very unique and flattering cuts, so is the NS but the Routes may as well be another NS) and its denim's characteristics- it has a very distinctive and quick fading properties, its stretchy and it is very uniform in color and texture.
    It's cheap and it fades. Add to that the sizing issues, sizing down two and Armstrong-like stretching, is why I never recommend it.
    Crate is basically taking deadstock denim and making a very decent (considering the pricepoint) jean in slightly more traditional cuts. The jean build itself I will say is higher than APC, the denim is subjective, the Crate jean I have seen are slightly slubby, very dark (as opposed to the lighter APC) and fades vertically. I don't own this jean personally however, I have only seen it.
    The Crate cuts are actually updated versions of popular traditional jeans. The construction is hands-down better than APC, as is the detailing, which is all done in a factory in LA.

    The denim is subjective in the sense that some people think that nothing beats a pair of 501s from Sears versus someone who knows that Cone Mills isn't a factory known for producing dunce hats or 1980s-Madonna bras. I'm not sure which Crates you saw that are darker than APC (?) but there are two different types of denim used for various models: a slubby/streaky version known for its lighter weight and a straightforward Levi's-style uniform indigo. I realize I have a vested interest in Crate but I speak from prior experience when I say that the $155 sewn pieces of blue French cardboard never appealed to me; once I learned about Crate it further made me question the validity of APC's status as the entry-level jean.

    Whall makes very solid jeans in a wide variety of flattering cuts using very decent denim. The last pair I saw in person was over two years ago (before he made the denim switch, IIRC) and I, along with the wearer, was impressed with the final product.

    Ultimately, it comes down to what a person wants from his jeans and how hard he's willing to open his wallet. But with Crate being what it is and going for $145 before a SF discount it's hard to justify spending the $155.
     


  2. v3l

    v3l Senior member

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    Now I'm thinking about getting a pair of Crates? I don't really feel like waiting and spending the money for the Ande Whalls. Where can I find them for that price? And the SF discount?
     


  3. whodini

    whodini Conan OOOOOOO"BRIEN!

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    Now I'm thinking about getting a pair of Crates? I don't really feel like waiting and spending the money for the Ande Whalls. Where can I find them for that price? And the SF discount?
    http://www.styleforum.net/showthread...ewpost&t=75237 Feel free to also track down the Crate threads for plenty of pics or clicking the Styleforum Gallery at the top of this page.
     


  4. ConcernedParent

    ConcernedParent Senior member

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    Tunisia. It's cheap and it fades. Add to that the sizing issues, sizing down two and Armstrong-like stretching, is why I never recommend it.
    No sir, it's made in Macau now. Which is basically how you say Made in China without actually saying made in China. The stretchiness can be a plus, gives you a 'custom' kind of fit when you size down, the downsize of course are the kneebags.
    The denim is subjective in the sense that some people think that nothing beats a pair of 501s from Sears versus someone who knows that Cone Mills isn't a factory known for producing dunce hats or 1980s-Madonna bras. I'm not sure which Crates you saw that are darker than APC (?) but there are two different types of denim used for various models: a slubby/streaky version known for its lighter weight and a straightforward Levi's-style uniform indigo. I realize I have a vested interest in Crate but I speak from prior experience when I say that the $155 sewn pieces of blue French cardboard never appealed to me; once I learned about Crate it further made me question the validity of APC's status as the entry-level jean.
    Only Crate jeans I've seen was slubby and streaky, so I don't know. AFAIK, Crate doesn't make a skinny jean, and I think that is the only 'real' draw APC has over Crate if what you said is true... maybe the fade pattern, but I'm sure high contrast in 3 months wear isn't for everyone.
    Whall makes very solid jeans in a wide variety of flattering cuts using very decent denim. The last pair I saw in person was over two years ago (before he made the denim switch, IIRC) and I, along with the wearer, was impressed with the final product. Ultimately, it comes down to what a person wants from his jeans and how hard he's willing to open his wallet. But with Crate being what it is and going for $145 before a SF discount it's hard to justify spending the $155.
    I wouldn't recommend Crate over the APC NS, unless the again... very distinctive fade properties are wanted, that or the wearer wants a skinny PS/NC jean. But I think we both unanimously agree Crate>APC unless those two conditions are present. What I'm saying is, I personally would fork over the extra $75 and buy AW's, to support the guy making an exceptional jean at a very good price. But Crates being cheap as they are, I understand the draw.
     


  5. Kill_switch

    Kill_switch Senior member

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  6. Trapp

    Trapp Senior member

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    Went to Self Edge today, tried on the SEXSC06 and fell in love (insert heart emoticon here). They're shrink to fit though, and they didn't have the size I actually need (30) to achieve the size I tried (29).

    Alas, they probably never will.
     


  7. whodini

    whodini Conan OOOOOOO"BRIEN!

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    No sir, it's made in Macau now. Which is basically how you say Made in China without actually saying made in China. The stretchiness can be a plus, gives you a 'custom' kind of fit when you size down, the downsize of course are the kneebags.
    I thought APC was still having their denim milled in Tunisia. Sorry, but I don't buy this idea of a "custom" fit; You don't buy a pair of $155 dress slacks, or any other article of clothing for that matter, hoping that they'll become baggy to the point where you have to second guess your sizing choice. People have grown to accept that slouch as part of the battle with APC and have tried to turn it around into a positive but... eh.
    Only Crate jeans I've seen was slubby and streaky, so I don't know. AFAIK, Crate doesn't make a skinny jean, and I think that is the only 'real' draw APC has over Crate if what you said is true... maybe the fade pattern, but I'm sure high contrast in 3 months wear isn't for everyone.
    Guess you can't say you've only seen slubby Crates anymore: http://www.styleforum.net/g/showgallery.php/cat/539

    Of course Crate makes a skinny jean and they have for years. Take a look at that same gallery (or Context's photos) for the Sally and (to a lesser extent) James.

    I'm not sure what you mean by "fade pattern" and a high contrast fade would have more to do with actual wear and treatment than the denim itself.

    I wouldn't recommend Crate over the APC NS, unless the again... very distinctive fade properties are wanted, that or the wearer wants a skinny PS/NC jean. But I think we both unanimously agree Crate>APC unless those two conditions are present. What I'm saying is, I personally would fork over the extra $75 and buy AW's, to support the guy making an exceptional jean at a very good price. But Crates being cheap as they are, I understand the draw.
    I have no idea what these "distinctive fade properties" that you're talking about are. I'm not even sure there are enough photos of worn-in Crates to truly compare to the plethora of APC, especially when you consider the different types of denim that Crate has used since its inception.

    Honestly, I have no clue what you're trying to say in those first two sentences.
     


  8. whodini

    whodini Conan OOOOOOO"BRIEN!

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    Paging whacked...
     


  9. grundletaint

    grundletaint Senior member

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    does rinsing jeans in the ocean reeeeeally do anything?
     


  10. onion

    onion Senior member

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    does rinsing jeans in the ocean reeeeeally do anything?
    I think the idea behind this is that the salt water will reduce indigo loss. I've heard it works about as well as a cold soak though it'll probably hold onto a little bit more indigo. If I had actual dirty jeans though, I would not go this route. Actually, I wouldn't go this route no matter what. If anything, I'd throw some sea salt in a bath tub and soak them there.
     


  11. whacked

    whacked Senior member

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    i'm looking for some jeans:

    * dark blue
    * raw and non-raw
    * classic, regular, STRAIGHT-LEG cut
    * can be worn a little slouchy
    * simple/plain back pockets (so no nudies)
    * under $200


    Cheap but workable and comes in a variety of washes
    - Levis 501 new cut
    - Uniqlo Straight Leg (002 cut)
    - Earnest Sewn Hemingway on sale

    Better but mostly raw
    - Crate Squire / Hamilton (my choice)
    - Naked & Famous Slim Guy
    - Lee Gold 101z
    - LVC 1947 501xx
    - Rag & Bone RB11 on sale
     


  12. dyzfunctioned

    dyzfunctioned Senior member

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    Re-Post...:

    So I'm buying a new pair of jeans here pretty quick and am stuck on a few pairs:

    N&F Weird Guy - Only one with a button fly, great price, probably the loosest of the three
    Levi's Capital E Matchstick - Bit on the pricey end, zipper fly, but fit great and are awesome jeans
    Guido & Mary - Never heard of them before, but tried on a pair and they seem great, the slimmest of these three, zipper fly, same price as the capital E's.
    APC - Not much to say about these, they're APC. Priciest of the group, and probably my least favourite, so not really considering them much haha.

    Any opinions?
     


  13. grundletaint

    grundletaint Senior member

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    i didn't like the N&F weird guys i had. the waist was really flappy and stretchy within minutes of wearing them
    capital E looks great for the first week or two, then they start falling apart.

    no experience with the others.
     


  14. whacked

    whacked Senior member

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    I'd skip the Capital E if you're paying anywhere close to retail; quality is mediocre at best.

    Try out the Weird Guy first, size down 1 perhaps, if the cut is too loose ([​IMG]), go for Skinny Guy.
     


  15. dyzfunctioned

    dyzfunctioned Senior member

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    I'd skip the Capital E if you're paying anywhere close to retail; quality is mediocre at best.

    Try out the Weird Guy first, size down 1 perhaps, if the cut is too loose ([​IMG]), go for Skinny Guy.


    Getting them a decent amount below retail, but still pretty pricey. Do you know anything about Guido&Mary?
     


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