I don't think I like Cab Sauv.

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

They must think you're a uber-sissy now. Here's a question though... Scotch is by many viewed as one of the manliest drinks. If you drink wine and scotch, but not beer, are you still considered a sissy?

I only talk to a few people from back home and don't really care what they think (tool and die or working on the line at Chrysler doesn't impress me enough (anymore) to care what you think.) Also, "Scotch" for this group of people means Cutty Sark, not a 28 year old Bunnahban, so again, I don't care.

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by gomestar

it's both, usually. Producers want that heavy oak flavor and the extra secondary malo, but they know that adding so much would dimish the need for quality grapes. Since good grapes are expensive, they can use cheaper ones and then drown out any perceived lack of quality with oak chips meant to mimick aging in oak casks (another big expense)

This is what I don't understand. No good wines have a heavy oak flavor. It's just one of the added subtleties that can make a wine great imo. I don't understand why imparting a heavy oak flavor is appealing to anyone and how they consistently sell this swill for $20/bottle (would be different if we were talking $10).

Originally Posted by Piobaire

I only talk to a few people from back home and don't really care what they think (tool and die or working on the line at Chrysler doesn't impress me enough (anymore) to care what you think.) Also, "Scotch" for this group of people means Cutty Sark, not a 28 year old Bunnahban, so again, I don't care.

Ok well to answer my own question, you'll always be a big sissy to me, piobaire.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

Ok well to answer my own question, you'll always be a big sissy to me, piobaire.

See my above answer concerning people's opinions I do not care about.

 

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

This is what I don't understand. No good wines have a heavy oak flavor. It's just one of the added subtleties that can make a wine great imo. I don't understand why imparting a heavy oak flavor is appealing to anyone and how they consistently sell this swill for $20/bottle (would be different if we were talking $10).

they wouldn't sell it if the market wasn't buying it. But, as it stands...

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by gomestar

they wouldn't sell it if the market wasn't buying it. But, as it stands...

I know... Just saying i really don't understand it.

 

[Piobaire]

Er, define "heavy oak." I can think of even a couple of "good" wines that have fairly noticeable oaking. Amarones pop to mind, with the about two years they spend in new French oak.

 

[clee1982]

I don't like overly oaky or overly fuirty (read weird sweet taste) Cab Sauv, otherwise I like it. I think a f*ed up Cab Sauv is more drinkable than a f*ed up Pinot Noir for what is worth...

Cab Sauv/Merlot mix can turn out quite good to disgustingly bad, otherwise that's what I would usually go with.

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Er, define "heavy oak." I can think of even a couple of "good" wines that have fairly noticeable oaking. Amarones pop to mind, with the about two years they spend in new French oak.

mostly talking about when it's done badly in whites like chardonnay. Can't say i've ever had a red where it's been noticeable to the point of distraction.

 

[gomestar]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Er, define "heavy oak." I can think of even a couple of "good" wines that have fairly noticeable oaking. Amarones pop to mind, with the about two years they spend in new French oak.

new French oak is not a requirement and from what I know most of the time producers aren't using new oak, rather a mix of new and old which will affect how much oak is detected in the final product.

Same with Barolo which requires 3 years in oak.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by gomestar

new French oak is not a requirement and from what I know most of the time producers aren't using new oak, rather a mix of new and old which will affect how much oak is detected in the final product.

Same with Barolo which requires 3 years in oak.

LOL, Italy and "required" seems to be a bit of a laugh, from what I've read/been told.

However, my point stands. Amarone, which just happened to be the wine that popped into my head, is known for heavy oaking and a good Amarone is certainly considered "good" wine. Vanilla is one of the taste markers the Guild indicates one should use in a blind tasting (along with glycerol, raisination, and quite often some residual sugar).

 

[foodguy]

white burgundies? rioja? Barolo? no oak? they make some pretty good wines. the problem with making blanket statements like "no oak" or "no high alcohol" or "no fruit bombs" (which, of course, I do all the time) is that there are always exceptions. what we're looking for is balance. and interestingly, the new wave of cali chards is promoting themselves now as chablisienne, meaning good acidity and no oak.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by foodguy

white burgundies? rioja? Barolo? no oak? they make some pretty good wines. the problem with making blanket statements like "no oak" or "no high alcohol" or "no fruit bombs" (which, of course, I do all the time) is that there are always exceptions. what we're looking for is balance. and interestingly, the new wave of cali chards is promoting themselves now as chablisienne, meaning good acidity and no oak.
Not that I doubt their intent, but when I taste my first Chablisienne Cal Chard, I will believe it. It just seems impossible given the growing conditions to produce something like a Chablis.

 

[foodguy]

i haven't had one that tasted like chablis. i have had a couple that tasted like really nice, pure chardonnay. look for the melville "inox" chardonnay.

 

[itsstillmatt]

Originally Posted by foodguy

i haven't had one that tasted like chablis. i have had a couple that tasted like really nice, pure chardonnay. look for the melville "inox" chardonnay.
Do you like Chablis? It is my favorite wine, when good. My favorites, Raveneau and Dauvissat (natch,) have a strong sort of walnut oil flavor I've never found in anything else, not even in most other Chablis. What is this from? I'll look for the Melville.

 

[A Y]

Greg Brewer's Diatom is another return-to-the-earth Chard: steel barrels, no malo.

--Andre