I can't stand italian clothing

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Horace, Oct 14, 2004.

  1. Alias

    Alias Senior member

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    I thought it was hilarious and intended to be a joke in that jab-elbow-at-establishment sort of way. [​IMG] From my personal experience, some of the ugliest, square-toed shoes are touted to be "Italian." I don't know if Italy is responsible for making these or if they just say "Made in Italy" to attract buyers, but man I remember some horrible shoes like these.
     


  2. AlanC

    AlanC Minister of Trad

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    Ah, dismissive of the classic American look. Its adherents are out there as you can see from this thread.
     


  3. tdial

    tdial Senior member

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    Hmmm, well, peeling away the layers put into this Ric Flair style argument, it's a decent position, though I'd rather it backed by examples, etc. Silly me.

    As for me, if some clothing god came down and made me choose one manufacturer for each article of clothing on my body (excluding underwear and socks), and I didn't have an unlimited budget (ie, can't do bespoke everything), here's what I'd go with:

    Borrelli shirts. Simply put, the best I've ever worn. Apologies to T&A, which are nice, but a Borrelli shirt has much more elegant hand work and just feel like butter. Never would buy a $500 RTW Kiton or $450 RTW Brioni, so they don't make the top of the list. Shirt: Italian. Italy leads 1-nil.

    Suit: Remember, no $5000 Bespoke allowed. So, I am going to once again go with Borrelli. At $2900 RTW (don't know what the MTM costs), a real "bargain" when you consider many tailors/experts consider them as well if not better constructed than Kiton. Fabrics aren't Kiton-like, but are $2K USD cheaper. Soft shoulder, tapered arms, puckered sleeve head, ah.. Suit: Italian. Italy leads 2-nil.

    Ties: Nothing beats a Kiton tie. Nothing. $200 for a 7-fold at full retail is ridiculous. So we'll go with a luxurious 7-fold with the thicker fabric from our very own Carlo Franco. At ~$90 USD, it's a steal. You can buy many Carlos and you'd never know they weren't Kiton until you see the label. Gorgeous stuff. But, Carlo must make sure his fabrics never tail off. Thick, soft, buttery silk is what makes a super pattern tie, a la Kiton. Ties: Tie (ha.), Kiton and Carlo Franco. Italy and US. Italy leads 3-0 (to 1, US).

    Shoes: And here is where British shoes make up for the suit, tie, and shirt losses. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, beats an English shoe. Yes, I know there are super high end Italian shoes, etc. But for those of us in the real world who have to consider mortgage payments, sending kids to school, etc. there really isn't a better quality shoe for its value than Edward Green (or, in my case, since $700 is still too much for me for a pair of shoes), C&J Hand Grade. John Lobb doesn't get to play in this game, since again, we have to pay mortgages, etc. Compare C&J and EG to their Italian rivals and I don't think it's a match. But I admit, I am not as knowledgable in this area as others, so I defer final judgement. But in my opinion, you go to Italy for fine clothes, but go to England for fine shoes. Shoes: UK. And since this is a hybrid boxing, soccer scoring system, we'll give the UK 2 points for this one. Honorable mention to Alden from the US. Score, Italy 3, UK 2, US 1.

    Final score here folks, from TDial Stadium (there might be other "games" going on in this thread, so this is just Game 1. Okay, so maybe the scoring is a la soccer, boxing, with a baseball playoffs multiple game format), it's Italy 3, UK 2, US 1.

    So that'd be a Borrelli suit w/ a Borrelli shirt, a Carlo Franco tie (or Kiton, if you have one), with EG or C&J (or Grenson, for those on this board) shoes. You're looking sharp, you have on some of the best clothes made anywhere, and your kids can still go to college.
     


  4. FIHTies

    FIHTies Senior member

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    Pardon me but what is American about CF ties? The silks are Italian as is the construction.
    The fact that the owner of the company resides in Texas shouldnt make difference in determining what the nationality of his product is.

    JJF
     


  5. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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  6. Giona Granata

    Giona Granata Senior member

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    Manton, I agree.

    Just one point.

    My ties are all bespoke Marinella. I have to say that the wonderfull silk of Marinella, is English. Many silk company in UK live just with Marinella ties.

    About shoes I will add Alden shoes.
     


  7. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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  8. Kaga

    Kaga Senior member

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    If my memory serves me correctly, Masahiko Kobe, the Prince of Pasta, Iron Chef Italian, has informed me that Marinella has bought its silks from Holliday and Brown and from Sambrook Witting, the renowned three-star silk houses. Moreover, the customer service and welcome at Marinella in its outposts in Milano and Naples are simply without equal.

    However, like my co-citizen and Iron Shoe Collector Jun Kawana, I give the edge to the British in the shoe world. To find anything approaching the quality of English shoes one must pay twice their prices in Italy.
     


  9. RIDER

    RIDER Senior member

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    A bit unfair to peg quality/style to a country of origin. Many Italian companies, for example, design and market their products for specific markets - not usually Italy itself. As far as design is concerned, you would not generally offer the same product to Asia, Germany, the UK, and America. A manufacturer will decide what they can produce to sell to these markets, and do so seperately. The best example I can give you is Santoni. They have, hidden behind a curtain in the showroom, the moccassins that are distributed to the US thru Santoni USA, which is not Santoni at all, but a guy named Gene Brown who owns the rights to market the shoes here. If asked, the Santoni people will show the shoes with the comment that "these are for the American market"; obviously not wanting to show buyers from elsewhere that they take this type of footwear too seriously. This is no knock on Santoni, they simply know what will sell in each market and try to satisfy that need.
     


  10. christian

    christian Senior member

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    With this attitude, I'm surprised you're not advocating we wear the fascist clothes of Hitler's germany. Yes, we must all obey and bow down to your superior taste from now on.

    The sack suit? That's only for overweight people. I like the way the Italian suits look for thinner people. Why make everybody, even people thin enough to wear Italian, wear something ugly as an sack.

    Seriously, sometimes people obsess and glorify the past too much. That was an era where women and minorities had no rights at all.
     


  11. AlanC

    AlanC Minister of Trad

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    LOL.

    It might not be the best choice to bring up "fascist" in an Italian thread.

    And I understand brown is in this year...
     


  12. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    I agree with Manton in most catagories except:

    RTW and bespoke shoes: I like both the English and Italians, since their sensibilites and designs are not interchangable, they have their own unique style and usages.
     


  13. Giona Granata

    Giona Granata Senior member

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    I don't share christian post.

    If someone, like Horace, want to dress his country traditional wear, I understand and appreciate it. Yes, that's not a reason to say that everything else is horrible, but I understand.

    Anyway some styles have emerged as what we say an International Classic. British '30, Italy '60, Neapolitan Style, for example.

    Everything else will drive us to a chauvinist polemic, that I don't like and support, as I love these countries for several reasons.
     


  14. tdial

    tdial Senior member

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    (tdial @ 14 Oct. 2004, 10:58) ...Kiton...Carlo Franco. Italy and US. Italy leads 3-0 (to 1, US).
    Pardon me but what is American about CF ties? Â The silks are Italian as is the construction. The fact that the owner of the company resides in Texas shouldnt make difference in determining what the nationality of his product is. JJF
    Heh. I was just trying to throw Chuck a bone and give us Yanks something to cheer about. We'll call the ties Italian if you all'd like and we'll give the tie category to Italy based on Kiton. However, technically, Carlo Franco is an American company, regardless of their sourcing/manufacturing practices and branding strategy.
     


  15. STYLESTUDENT

    STYLESTUDENT Senior member

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    T Dial-

    My Hermes ties have entered into mass depression. And I can't say "chacun a son gout" in Italian.
     


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