I bought 3 Tom Fords and I feel terrible about it.

[intense2b]

Thanks for all that.....I am absolutely going To listen. I'll just go for the "house cut" and give it a try.

I agree that nothing fits as well as custom now that I think about it....I just didn't realize I was looking at custom....

For example although I hate the show.....the one thing I do like is Scott Disiks suits.... I never understood why they look so freaking good until
Now

The. Again Scott actually has Bespoke Tom Ford suits!

Which by the way is very possible to do.....although I have no idea what the cost is......

And again I have to take back the statement that "money is not an issue" .....because at a certain point it is.

If I had to do it all over again I would have taken the $18,000 and simply had ford do one bespoke suit !

On well.....I'm going to give up on getting a bespoke TF and just try the house cut . That's a BIG help thank you!!!

 

[JubeiSpiegel]

One does not simply ask Tom Ford for bespoke...

 

[Quadcammer]



Those people saying "stick to TF if you like TF" are not offering good advice.
If you want to develop tailoring into a real hobby, chances are you're going to fall out of love with TF pretty quickly,
(Unless of course you have no real interest in tailoring per se -- but rather you're more interested in status-seeking, glamour, and all the rest that is associated with expensive suits.)

You lost me here.

Someone can be very into tailoring as a "real hobby" and yet still enjoy the look and feel of a well fitting TF suit.

Then, to make the assertion that if one isn't into tailoring "per se", that he is simply interested in status-seeking, glamour, and all the rest illustrates a duality which doesn't really exist. There are many reason to buy high end RTW, regardless of a tailored clothing hobby. For instance, I'm not a fan of a lot of the house cuts on the row. A well fitting kiton might work better for me. Point being, most people who have the means and are very into tailored clothing buy bespoke. That is not to say that every suit they own is bespoke, and that anything but bespoke is done merely for shallow vanity reasons.

 

[eddievddr10]

i have 6 tom ford suits i love the fit the quality is great, 4 are 3 piece and i got insane complments when i wear them. I used to wear gucci and dior homme, and tom ford is the more grown up look in a hollywoodesque -way . would I pay 6000 no way!

Bespoke to me is something i will do down the road when I have the time and the money, same as buying myself a Patek. I have some bespoke suits from chittleborough & morgan (not made for me) and love the detailing of bespoke.

 

[Blackhood]

The top end of RTW and Bespoke are basically comparable. TF uses materials and techniques that pass muster in all but the most rarefied of tailoring houses.

Bespoke is a tool get get exactly what you want. Be it a particular measurement for the armscy or a particular colour of cloth.

A well-fitting suit from a bespoke maker will be almost indistinguishable from a well fitting RTW suit if the materials and construction methods are comparable.

The variable in the equation is how well fitting the RTW model is. If by some chance, it is within a hairs breadth of your "bespoke pattern" then you will see little improvement by using a bespoke tailor. When experienced customers and tailors use the phrase "nail down your fit" they do so for a very good reason: there is a finite amount of adjustment to make you look as good as possible. In a world where you find a brand that fits you perfectly, and you find a tailor who does not make mistakes the two suits sitting in your closet will look identical.


If you find a RTW model that fits almost perfectly, and they use materials and techniques that meet or exceed your standards, there is no reason to poo-poo that maker in favour of your bespoke tailor.

BUT

The chances of you being the right shape for a suit are somewhere in the region of 1 in 7 billion (given that brand sizing is generally based on a size-model, who is hired because he looks almost perfectly average). In a RTW brand you will never have your name embroidered onto the lining, you will never have a wang-pocket that supports your junk just the right amount. This is why we go bespoke.

 

[Griffindork]



if money is no object, i would use kilgour for bespoke. one of savile row's finest (made suits for cary grant etc) , and the strong-shouldered silhouette is not dissimilar to tom ford.
they will be in new york in june, check the website for details.

My most recent experience with Kilgoir is 2007, but it wasn't pleasant. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. Perhaps they've changed, but I wouldn't think of the silhouette as similar to Tom Ford, and it would be hard to imagine worse customer service than what I experienced with Kilgour bespoke.

 

[TheFoo]

Is Kilgour still a respected Savile Row tailor? Thought they went all fashion designer.

Also (dead horse warning), what exactly is it that you guys think is so special about the Tom Ford cut that you can't get bespoke?

 

[Blackhood]

The ability to go from wanting-> choosing -> paying -> wearing in under an hour.

 

[aravenel]



Is Kilgour still a respected Savile Row tailor? Thought they went all fashion designer.

Also (dead horse warning), what exactly is it that you guys think is so special about the Tom Ford cut that you can't get bespoke?

Its more that the TF is there and ready. Sure, a good bespoke tailor could do it, but it would probably take several tries to get it nailed down as you'd be asking the tailor to cut something different from their norm, and you'd end up basically where you started--a TF suit. Sure, it'd probably fit a bit better, but I'd hope that if you're going into the TF boutique and dropping $6-$7k on a suit, that they are going to fit you well and do the alterations needed.

If he wants TF, buy TF, don't have someone else try to duplicate it just to replicate something already widely available for about the same amount of money.

Me, Id never buy TF--it's not my style at all, and I'd rather have that journey with the tailor... But I'm not OP.

 

[jeff13007]



Is Kilgour still a respected Savile Row tailor? Thought they went all fashion designer.

Also (dead horse warning), what exactly is it that you guys think is so special about the Tom Ford cut that you can't get bespoke?

I think a few years back Kilgour got rid of their china made RTW and MTM and is now trying to focus more on their in house Bespoke, but this is a "he said, she said" statement that might not be entirely correct. As for your Tom Ford cut comment, my reply would be absolutely nothing. Well done bespoke is really tough to beat but in my view even though people like saying "you can get anything with bespoke blah blah, its all custom blah blah" that is not really the case. Like it or not bespoke tailors do have a house style of their own, yes they can make exceptions but only within reason. Foo you wouldn't take a huntsman suit to your cutter at rubinacci and ask him to duplicate it would you? I believe you and i were on the same side of an argument in another thread about someone wanting to get charvet to copy one of his shirts? The benefits of Tom Ford or any high end OTR for that matter is that you get to actually see what you are buying, Bespoke won't solve all problems and once your order is placed there is not much you can do. Even in his book Savile row ripped and smoothed, ex Huntsman cutter Richard Anderson mentions a client that he was never able to get the shoulder correct on his jackets until a few years down the line and after experimenting with various solutions (even his son's putty if i remember correctly).

 

[jeff13007]



Fair enough. Then as a start, why don't you try made-to-measure from a reputable company? Samuelsohn, Corneliani, Pal Zileri all have great mtm/custom programs that are reasonably priced. I've also heard great things on the forum about Joseph Lock (he has his own thread on the forum).

I think JL's prices are around $1k for a handmade suit; can anybody confirm?

Or just kill two birds with one stone and do TF MTM. Their second floor in their madison store has a room dedicated to MTM Suits, Shirts, and Shoes

 

[jefferyd]

I find it interesting that people can make the claim in this thread that bespoke automatically means perfection, while in another thread there are 209 pages of argument about pa-fucked shoulders in bespoke. And statements such as the following (not to mention previous "bespoke disasters" threads...)

Originally Posted by marcodalondra

Please read through this thread, I cannot remember who, but someone in here talked about Dino convincing him to accept delivery even though the jacket was tight and he took it to his local alteration tailor for letting it out and other examples to that effect.
When I buy bespoke I also expect a lifelong service on the garments. I have taken both jackets and trousers for alteration and other service (eg. Re-stitching a trouser cuff that came loose) for free. I would not take any of my bespoke garments at any local tailor, let the original tailor deal with it.


This is also my recent experience with Formosa... Simply the cutter thinks that the suit fits great but it's too tight in the waist (i told him in first fitting , he said yes yes but i think he was thinking that once the vents opened it would be good but it's far from being sufficiant) i also told them to shorthen sleeve length and they returned exactly same and they are telling me that last time i said sleeves are ok , overall after first fitting they finished the jacket. they didn't change anything.

As a civilized person it's really hard to argue with these uncivilized italian guys... I also had same problem with Panico.. Again it's impossible to communicate with these guys. Dino may be like those guys, i don't know

Cognitive dissonance, anyone?

 

[Griffindork]



I think a few years back Kilgour got rid of their china made RTW and MTM and is now trying to focus more on their in house Bespoke, but this is a "he said, she said" statement that might not be entirely correct. As for your Tom Ford cut comment, my reply would be absolutely nothing. Well done bespoke is really tough to beat but in my view even though people like saying "you can get anything with bespoke blah blah, its all custom blah blah" that is not really the case. Like it or not bespoke tailors do have a house style of their own, yes they can make exceptions but only within reason. Foo you wouldn't take a huntsman suit to your cutter at rubinacci and ask him to duplicate it would you? I believe you and i were on the same side of an argument in another thread about someone wanting to get charvet to copy one of his shirts? The benefits of Tom Ford or any high end OTR for that matter is that you get to actually see what you are buying, Bespoke won't solve all problems and once your order is placed there is not much you can do. Even in his book Savile row ripped and smoothed, ex Huntsman cutter Richard Anderson mentions a client that he was never able to get the shoulder correct on his jackets until a few years down the line and after experimenting with various solutions (even his son's putty if i remember correctly).

They got rid of their hong kong bespoke (which was still cut on savile row) a few years ago and have been through several ownership changes since then.

 

[unbelragazzo]

I'm not trying to impugn jeffreyd, but just to head off the circulation of a baseless rumor that seems already to be getting out of hand...jeffrey is quoting from two posts here. The first is, I am ALMOST sure, referring to this post:

http://www.styleforum.net/t/207054/my-visit-to-napoli-mina-napoli-su-misura/2355#post_6150955

I probably was a bit too hands-off, as I really liked what I had seen from them before. I mentioned some of the points at the second meeting, but was told I should wear it for a while to decide on any changes for the third fitting.

There is no "convincing him to accept delivery," which implies the agreement that the jacket is completed and no longer to be altered. The client is being allowed to keep the garment for a while in anticipation of future changes, to be decided by the client. What the other circumstances of this agreement are, we don't know. This poster never came back to post what the final resolution was. I have never seen anybody refer to needing to use a local alterations tailor, and marcodalondra has not provided any links to posts that indicate that.

The second post is this one, by someone else:

This is also my recent experience with Formosa... Simply the cutter thinks that the suit fits great but it's too tight in the waist (i told him in first fitting , he said yes yes but i think he was thinking that once the vents opened it would be good but it's far from being sufficiant) i also told them to shorthen sleeve length and they returned exactly same and they are telling me that last time i said sleeves are ok , overall after first fitting they finished the jacket. they didn't change anything.
As a civilized person it's really hard to argue with these uncivilized italian guys... I also had same problem with Panico.. Again it's impossible to communicate with these guys. Dino may be like those guys, i don't know
I had a great experience with Solito, he's very nice and tries to do a proper fitting. He says what he's doing and he's asking if it's ok for me. As i said i am not going to argue with these people, obviously i lost some money as the suits ended up somewhat bad fitting (good quality, bad fit) but i really don't care too much simply i am not returning to these guys but will visit Solito in the future.

This person has clearly never even met Dino or Mina.

I agree that bespoke is not a cure-all or a sure thing. I will post my general thoughts to that effect later, and include a link in this thread. But I wanted to clarify where the above posts come from, since people's names are used in them.

 

[Griffindork]



This is Tom Ford OTR with some alterations; it's not impossible to get a good fit without going bespoke. So if you like what you bought, have a decent tailor to adjust it, and you're not a terribly hard figure to fit, you really shouldn't feel terrible.

This looks great. I never would have envisioned myself liking a six button DB with 2 rows of buttons each on the same horizontal line, but I really like this.